Joe Roark's IronHistoryArchives.com
The HUGE library of Iron History compiled by Joe Roark.
Welcome to Iron History with Joe Roark!
Joe Roark has been studying the iron game since 1957, and by 1970 began a systematic gathering of information on index cards. By the time his first computer was acquired, there were several hundred thousand references to be typed into it.
For a few years he published his own newsletter called MuscleSearch: The Roark Report. By 1992 he was appointed as the IFBB Men's Bodybuilding Historian, and began writing about history for FLEX in his column Factoids. For ten years he contributed to Iron Game History from the U of Texas at Austin. Recently he also began writing All Our Yesterdays for FLEX.
His passion has always been the period between 1880 and 1920, with particular emphasis on the oldtime strongmen of that era. Joe will be offering bits of history for Cyberpump once per week, and the text will be relevant to the dates of the calendar for those events of yesteryear relevant to the coming week.
In this column, readers will also be able to ask Joe questions or comment on his posts. Note: The comments are solely for interaction between Joe and the readers only -- not reader to reader.
January 2, 2004
Wednesday, December 31, 2003
We begin our third year at ironhistory.com!
A few weeks ago, in mid-November, we also started some free forums at ironhistory.com. Bill Piche is the administrator, John McNeany and I are the moderators. As we enter 2004, we have fewer than 100 members. Our concentration on the forums reflects the themes found in the pay site- the history of our sport. Please consider joining us at the forums!
To begin 2004 I am presenting an index to the articles and the authors that appeared in Sig Klein's old publication KLEIN'S BELL, which ended the same month that Strength & Health magazine debuted.
This index is not intended to be other than a simple guide to what, in general, can be found in the pages of KLEIN'S BELL, so enjoy, and let's make this the year that ironhistory.com advances!
See you January 9th back here, and sooner at the forums!
Joe Roark
KLEIN'S BELL magazine index by Joe Roark:
A total of 19 issues compose the entire run of KLEIN'S BELL,
magazine existed from June 1931 thru Dec 1932, (total of 144 pages)Apollon
Aug 1932 p 3 When A became angry- JowettArco, Otto
Aug 1931 p 2 5# how he took the name "Arco"; had been teamed
with Mogyorossy as "The Kroton Brothers". When they
split he got a curtain with "Kroton" lettering,
which he converted to ARC:OAttila, Prof. Louis
Oct 1931 p 5 How he changed his stage name- Klein
having admired the great Hun, "Atli", signifies
'iron' in the Hunnic languageAuthors who wrote in Klein's Bell:
for the first four issues, Klein was the only author, then:
Oct 1931 p 6 Ray Van Cleef began "Odds & Ends"
p 7 Exercise & the heart- Dr. Woods Hutchinson
Dec 1931 p 6 Impressions of SK's studio- anonymous
Jan 1932 p 5 El Saied M. Nosier- Walter Greenfield
p 7 Diet- B.S. Whitney
Jul 1932 p 2 'Dancing' the spinal muscles- Alan Calvert
p 5 Do we need exercise?- Andrew V. Judson
p 8 a letter from Fred Weber
Aug 1932 p 3 When Apollon became angry- Jowett
Sep 1932 p 5 Muscle binding- Charles T. Trevor
Oct 1932 p 4 Strong men of Paris- Abe Einson
Dec 1932 p 3 Brief story of my career- Adolph NordquestBatta, Charles born Aug 17, 1866 in Lille, France
died Jun 7, 1931 in Paris, France
Nov 1931 p 4 Story- Klein 3 # photoBerman, Irving
Dec 1932 Cover photo p 2 story- Klein
N 15 C 42 W 31 B 14 Wr 7-1/8 T 21.5 C 14.5
5'7.5" 153 lbsBoshes, Abe
Jan 1932 p 8 Story- Klein
5'3" 148 lbs N 16 C 42/48 (sic) B 16 F 12.5
T 24 C 15.5Calvert, Alan
Jul 1932 p 2 'Dancing' the spinal muscles- selfCodee, Ann
Aug 1931 p 6 One of three sisters known as the 'Three Athletas' #
Cook, Martin born Aug 19, 1904 in Guttenberg, N.J.
Aug 1932 Cover photo as part of the '15" arm club'
Oct 1932 Cover photo p 2 Story- KleinDenina, James Andrew
Jun 1931 p 2 # designed & drew the masthead for Klein's BellDumbells
Jun 1931 p 3 # how dumbells got their nameFleischer, Max
Dec 1931 p 3 Story- KleinGaran, John Jan 19, 1910 in NYC
Aug 1932 Cover photo as part of 'the 15" club'
Sep 1932 Cover photo p 2 Story- Klein
N 16 B 15.5 F 12.75 C 43 W 31 T 23 C 15
5'5" 155 lbsGay, Arthur F.
Aug 1931 p 8 Story- Klein and photo at age 36
5'10" 180 lbs B 16 C 16 N 16 W 33 Wr 7.5
C 43 T 23.5Greenfield, Walter born Apr 18, 1909
Oct 1931 p 6 Story- KleinGrip-Chin
Aug 1931 p 3 Chinning by grabbing rope endsGym-Gyms
Jul 1931 p 3 A term used in this issue of Klein's BellHunt, Terry born May 8, 1908
Aug 1931 Cover photo, story p 2 born in Thatcher, AZ. Boxed
under the name "Young Terry" winning 50 of 58 matches
N 16.5 B 14.5 F 12 C 41 W 30 T 21.5 C 14.75
155 lbsHutchinson, Dr. Woods
Oct 1931 p 7 Exercise and the heart- selfJahn, Friederich Ludwig born Aug 11, 1778 in province of Brandenburg,
Prussia
Jul 1932 p 3 Story- KleinJowett, George F.
Aug 1932 p 3 When Apollon became angry- Jowett
Sep 1932 p 3 Saxon Trio
Oct 1932 p 3 Vansittart
Nov 1932 p 3 John Grun MarxKennedy, James
Jun 1932 p 3 Story- KleinKettlebell
Apr 1932 p 5 Story of the K- Klein
May 1932 p 8 Ringing the praises of the K- KleinKLEIN'S GYM (& Klein)
Aug 1931 p 3 How members are guided
p 7 pho of his gym and some details
Oct 1931 p 3 How I use barbells
Dec 1931 p 6 Impression of Klein's Studio 717 Seventh Ave at 48th
Street in NYC phone Medallion 3-9045Lambert, Joe
Jul 1931 p 3 made a box for a magician to use in sawing someone
in halfLaubscher, Frank
Aug 1932 Cover photo as a member of 'the 15" club'Leers, Luisita born 1910 in Wiesbaden, Germany
Mar 1932 p 2 Story- KleinLeslie, Arthur age 58
Sep 1931 p 3 Story- KleinLong, Jr., Jack born Jan 28, 1913 in Chicago, IL.
Aug 1932 Cover photo as member of 'the 15" club'
Nov 1932 Cover photo p 2 Story- Klein
N 17 B 15.5 F 13 C 43 W 30 T 22.75 C 15 163 lbsLong, Jr. Nick
Nov 932 p 5 Story- KleinMacDonald, Howard Breton
Aug 1931 p 6 Story- KleinMarx, John Grunn
Nov 1932 p 3 The giant of Luxemburg- JowettMassimo, Clevio born May 4, 1895 in Opi Labruza (near Rome)
Feb 1932 Cover photo p 2 Story- Klein
5'8.5" 180 lbs N 17.5 B 16.25 F-straight: 15.25
Wr 8.5 C 44 W 33 T 24 C 17Mead, Alan P.
May 1932 p 6 Story- Klein
Jul 1932 Cover photoMeasurements
Sep 1931 p 4 The truth about big arms- Klein
Sig had never measured a 17" arm on anyone weighing
less than 200 lbs, and said that at 140 lbs a
15" arm would be a good sizeMiller, Frank born Sep 30, 1902
Apr 1932 Cover photo p 2 Story- Klein
N 15.5 B 15 F 12.25 C 41 W 28.5 T 21.5 C 14
5'7" 147 lbs
Aug 1932 Cover photo as member of 'the 15" arm club"Neubauer, Ignatius born Jun 17, 1896 Albany, NY
Nov 1931 p 8 N 16.5 B 16 F 13 C 45 W 34 T 24 C 16
170 lbs 5'6.5" (all 1931)Nole, Leon
Jun 1931 p 1 Story- Klein measures as of 1931:
N 16 B 15.25 F 13 C 43 W 32 T 24 C 16.5 170 lbsNordquest, Adolph E.
Dec 1932 p 3 Story- selfNosier, El Saied M.
Jan 1932 p 5 Story- W. GreenfieldOlascuga, Lawrence born Sep 9, 1905 in Los Angeles
Nov 1931 p 2 Story- Klein
joined Klein's gym Feb 16, 1931
Oct 1931: N 15.25 B 14.25 F 12 C 42 W 31 T 22
C 12.5 145 lbs"Our Readers Ask"
Nov 1932 p 7 Q&A columnPandour, Bobby
Nov 1931 p 5 Story- Klein 2 #PHOTOS: photos of the following appeared in Klein's Bell:
Jun 1931 Leon Nole, Henry Steinborn
Jul 1931 Fred Ritter, Andre Reverde
Aug 1931 Terry Hunt, Anonymous [Bert McQueen?], Sig Klein,
Howard Brenton MacDonald, Klein's Gym. Art Gay
Sep 1931 Herbert Seelig, Arthur Leslie, Klein, Klein's gym,
William D. Wareing
Oct 1931 Harry Turi, Walter Greenfield, Klein, Jim Londos,
Kenneth Terreill
Nov 1931 Lawrence Olascuga, Albert Spottiswood
Charles Batta, Klein(1929), the Rubio Sisters,
Ignatius Neubauer
Dec 1931 Tony Sansone, Max Fleischer, The Manginis, Klein,
Adolph G. Pitz
Jan 1932 Charles B. Treadwell, Tony Sansone, Klein,
Les Bartras (group), Abe Boshes
Feb 1932 Clevio Massimo, Tony Sansone, Klein,
Les Reinch (group)
Mar 1932 Tony Sansone, Luisita Leers, Klein, Terrell & Kemp
Apr 1932 Frank Miller, Tony Sansone, Athena (duo), Klein,
Al Treloar
May 1932 Henry Youngblood, Sandow, Klein, The Kemmys
Jun 1932 Aaron Silberman, Sandow, Les Mangini (duo), KleinJul 1932 Alan P. Mead, Arthur Leslie, Carl Sayton & partner,
Klein, Leon Nole
Aug 1932 Frank Laubscher, Ray Van Cleef, Jack Long,Jr.,
Frank Miller, Martin Cook, John Garan, Apollon,
Klein, Omero (duo), Charles Treadwell
Sep 1932 John Garan (Garron?), Saxons, June Purlans & Company,
Klein
Oct 1932 Martin Cook, Charles Vansittart, Joe Richmond,
Massimoo & Foley, Klein
Nov 1932 Jack Long,Jr., John Grunn Marx, Klein, Nick Long,
Hurculean (sic) Trio
Dec 1932 Irving Berman, Adolph Nordquest, J. Evans, Klein,
Luisita Leers, The KemmeysPitz, Adolph G. born Sep 27, 1879 in Germany
Dec 1931 p 8 Story- KleinPosing
Dec 1931 p 2 Posing for muscular display part 1-Klein
also Jan 1932 p 3, Feb 1932 p 4, Mar 1932 p 4,
Apr 1932 p 3
Push-Ups
Jun 1931 p 3 Called 'dipping'; and was the exercise of the monthRasch, Bill
Jun 1931 p 2 3 # about his self defense from 5 roughnecksReverde, Andre born 1894
Jul 1931 p 4 Story
5'2" 120 lbs appeared in Vaudeville & in circuses
bent press 168, photo at age 23, autographed photo to
Klein dated Jan 13, 1926
C 36 W 26 T 21 C 13.75 B 14.5 N 15.5 F 11.5Rigoulot, Charles
Oct 1931 p 6 Story- R.V.Cleef
"C.R. is preparing to become a pro wrestler under
George Hackenschmidt's management. He will invade
the wrestling circles here in 1932."Ritter, Fred
Jul 1931 p 1 Story- Klein born Apr 30, 1907 in NYC
measures as of 1931:
N 16.75 B 15.25 F 13 C 43 W 32 T 22.75 C 16
181 lbsRoman Column
Jul 1931 p 3 Story of it and Klein's gym had the only one in NYCSandow, Eugen
May 1932 p 3 Sandow, an appreciation- Calvert
Jun 1932 p 4 Sandow, an appreciation- CalvertSansone, Tony born Sep 19, 1905
Dec 1931 Cover photo p 2 Story- Klein
Mar 1932 Cover photoSaxon Trio
Sep 1932 p 3 The 3 Jolly Germans- JowettSeelig, Herbert
Sep 1931 Cover photo p 2 Story- Klein
N 15.5 B 14 F 12 C 40 W 28.75 T 22.75
C 14.75 140 lbs 5'5"Shape
Sep 1931 p 6 Train for shape- KleinSilberman, Aaron born 1924
Jun 1932 Cover pho p 2 Story- Klein
N 17.25 B 16 C 45 T 25.5 C 16 200 lbs'SPECIAL EXERCISE" series:
Jun 1931 p 3 Dipping: pushups
Jul 1931 p 3 Knee Raise [ iron shoe on foot, stand on stool ]
Aug 1931 p 3 Grip chin [ chin with ropes ]
Sep 1931 p 3 Leg curl [ standing, iron shoe ]
Oct 1931 p 7 Neck raise from wrestler's bridge
Nov 1931 p 5 Wrist curl
Dec 1931 p 5 Pullover on bench
Jan 1932 p 6 Seated leg raise
Feb 1932 p 6 Face down leg lift
Mar 1932 p 7 Palms-back French press
Apr 1932 p 7 Leg raise, dumbell between feet
May 1932 p 5 Calf raise, one legged
Jun 1932 p 7 Arm development (not called Special Exercise)
Jul 1932 p 7 Deep Knee Bend
Aug 1932 p 6 Dumbell lateral raise
Sep 1932 p 6 Pinch gripping
Oct 1932 p 7 One arm clean & overhead
Nov 1932 p 4 Neck strap
Dec 1932 p 5 Twists downward for sidesSpottiswood, Albert
Nov 1931 p 3 Story- Klein age 40
1929: 125 lbs N 16 C 36/39.75 exp B 14 F 11 Wr 7 W 30
T 21 C 12.75Steinborn, Henry born Mar 14, 1894 Siegsburg, Germany
Jun 1931 p 4 Story-
began lifting in 1914; came to America in 1921
nickname "Hein"; is good at muscle control
Hobby is motor boating; now a pro wrestlerSun Tan
Jun 1931 p 3 # several cots for tanning on the roof of Klein's gym
but must wear "a supporter & tights"Swanson, Fred
Jun 1931 p 3 was a masseur at Klein's gymTerrell, Kenneth born 1904 in Coolidge, GA.
Oct 1931 p 8 Story- Klein
1931: N 16.75 B 15.5 C 42.5 F 12.75 W 32 T 23
C 15 5'10" 168 lbsTreadwell, Charles B born Jan 18, 1911 in NYC
Jan 1932 Cover pho p 2 Story- Klein
1931: 5'8" 170 lbs N 16.25 B 16 F 14 C 43.5
W 33 T 24 C 16Treloar, Albert
Apr 1932 p 8 Story- KleinTuri, Harry
Oct 1931 Cover photo p 2 Story- Klein
1931: 153 lbs 5'6" N 16 B 15.75 F 13 C 42.5
W 31.5 T 23 C 15.25Van Cleef, Ray
Aug 1932 Cover photo as member of 'the 15" arm club"
Column: Odds & Ends ran:
Oct 1931 p 6 May 1932 p 6 now "Gym Gems"
Nov 1931 p 7 Jun 1932 p 6
Dec 1931 p 4 Jul 1932 p 7
Jan 1932 p 7 Aug 1932 p 5
Feb 1932 p 8 Sep 1932 p 6
Mar 1932 p 6 Oct 1932 p 6
Apr 1932 p 6 Nov 1932 p 6
Dec 1932 p 6Vansittart, Charles
Oct 1932 p 3 The man with the iron grip- JowettWareing, William D. Jul 1, 1898 in NYC died Jul 14, 1954
Sep 1931 p 8 Story- Klein photo age 21
appeared often in PHYSICAL CULTURE mag
opened gym in 1919 in NYC
bent pressed 227
5'6" N 15.75 B 15 F 12.25 C 43 W 34 T 25 C 16Williams, Carl Easton
Aug 1931 p 4 # has couilmn in New York Evening Graphic about
physical culture. Was edit-in-chief for ten years of
PHYSICAL CULTURE magYoungblood, Henry
May 1932 Cover pho born 1910
p 2 Story- KleinPosted by TheEditor @ 06:42 PM CST
Dec 26, 2003
Friday, December 26, 2003
Happy Holidays and Merry Christmas everyone. May Peace Always Be With You And With Those You Love. We are keeping it short this week, but here are some handy references to Bob Peoples, not exhaustive notes (but I am tired�).
Born August 21, 1910, died June 19, 1992, and called by some 'History's Greatest Deadlifter". Terry Todd and Paul Anderson presented a two part recap on Peoples in the January and the February issues of Muscular Development in 1973.
Bob Hise had earlier Vol 8:1 written about Bob for Ironman, and Bob spoke for himself and his training methods in Ironman in April 1954.
Al Thomas wrote in the November 1992 Iron Game History: Bob Peoples: Deadlift Champ, Strength Theorist, Civic Leader. (the civic leader part of Bob's life had been ongoing for many years. In Lifting News Nov 1954, it was reported that in Bob's effort to become Justice of the Peace, Bob garnered 402 out of 425 possible votes!
Here are some notations from my files about Bob, who lived in Johnson City, Tennessee.
When Bob began deadlifting he could manage 350 pounds, and could press 150, snatch 150, clean and jerk 215, squat 300, bent press 125, right arm jerk 150, left arm jerk 135. All of that was as of November 1, 1935 when he was age 25.
Now some refs from Ironman as Bob progressed: Jul 1943 half squat 635, and 7 reps half squat with 600 Aug 1943 half squat 10 at 600 pounds.
Now some specific dates: Oct 21, 1943 (age 33) full squat 410, snatch without foot action, 190; total in 3 Olympic lifts 642.5 lbs
Feb 1, 1945 (age 34) squat 350 for 10 reps
Feb 2, 1945 (age 34) squat 400 x 2. alternate press with dumbbells 80 lbs, 7 reps each arm
Feb 3, 1945 (age 34) squat 400 x 3
Feb 6, 1945 (age 34) alternate dumbbells press 90s for 4 reps
Feb 7, 1945 (age 34) half squat 600 for 7 reps, alternate press 90s for 5 reps.
Feb 8, 1945 (age 34) deadlift 450 for 5, press 170 x 4, 180 x 3
Feb 10, 1945 (age 34) deadlift 500 x 3, snatch 180 x 4, press 180 x 3
Feb 11, 1945 (age 34) half squat 650 x 1, alternate press 90s x 6, jerk 230 x 4
Feb 12, 1945 (age 34) deadlift 500 x 5, press 180 x 4, snatch 180 x 4
Jul 18, 1947 (age 36)his deadlift workout, consisted of 3 reps each with: 250, 300, 350, 400, 450, 500, 550, 600, and after ALL THAT he managed a personal best single with 660 lbs!
Aug 2, 1947 (age 36) deadlift 675
Aug 6, 1947 (age 36) deadlift 650, then just barely cleared the floor with 700 lbs.
Aug 14, 1947 (age 36) deadlift 600 for 7 reps
Sep 3, 1947 (age 37) deadlift 680
Oct 4, 1947 (age 37) a new world record deadlift of 700 lbs.
Mar 5, 1949 (age 38) weighing 175 lbs he deadlifted 727.50 lbs! That was 27.5 lbs more than quadruple his bodyweight!
Please consider joining our discussion forum at ironhistory.com
See you Next Year!
Posted by TheEditor @ 07:40 AM CST
Dec 19, 2003
Thursday, December 18, 2003
Letter from Charles A. Smith to Joe Roark May 6, 1986
I hadn't heard from you for so long I had begun to think I had done something to annoy you, or you were all disappointed in me or that there were no topless oyster bars or hot and hot running butlers in Austin or something. Anyway good to hear from you at long last.
Nothing too much to report from this end. Had a letter from John Grimek to tell me Stanczyk had had a stroke some months ago- sounded like the beginning of the year, that he had been in hospital for some long time, that he was now out and his wife Dorothy had said his memory was good and his mind appeared to be unimpaired. Very sad this, especially when one saw him as I did as a very powerful man. My wife and I spent a very happy day with him and his wife way back in1953 at some meet or the other.
Also had a call from Fred Howell who told me he is looking forward to meeting me after so long knowing of me and would take loads of shots. Jan asked me the other day if I weren't excited at going to NYC and I told her a world traveler like me didn't get excited at anything any more unless it was a red headed widow.
Was most sorry to learn of your decision to- possibly- quit publishing the report at the end of the current series. I know you could never hope to get rich on it- or even make a modest competence. But at the same time I think you should reconsider. Some one has to be the gad fly- to act as the conscience of others and I think, in no small measure- the Roark Report filled that need. So before you do give it the chop I think I'd carefully consider it
I have an article roughed out that Rader has accepted to the effect that all we are told these days about the wonderful training principles, exercises, apparatus and other stuff isn't the brain child of the Woodland Hills XXX but of the men who were long before him they had these things on the market and in the game way before his Mammy was saying to Dad, 'Not tonight dear, I have a headache.' Rader has accepted it and another along the same lines on powerlifting in which they now not only have to use steroids to help them 'win' or create a 'record', but also special clothing to aid them in their benches, squats and dead lifts, plus wrappings. How long will it be before they are using blocks and tackles and calling the results 'records'?
So I say keep it going and needle the phonies and dig the knife in as I now intend to do.
Came across some good stuff the other day re the American Continental Weightlifters' Association formed by Jowett and Coulter. There was a very acid letter contained therein re the claim by Jowett to have cleaned and jerked 310 at a Philly meet. One of those who was there complained long and loud at the claim saying Jowett was up to his usual tricks and has never done the lift. However he did state that he has seen Jowett press 210- two hand press- several reps.
Also another juicy tidbit from a 1913 edition of Health and Strength- eat your heart out- wherein Tromp Van Diggelin- I never did like the son of a bitch- wrote a letter declaiming Fred Rollon. Rollon was a Berliner who was absolutely incredible at strand pulling and had a physique that warranted the same description. Like an enlarged Otto Arco or a heavier Pandour when they were at their best. Anyway the upshot of it was that Van Diggelin was saying that although strand pulling built muscle it didn't built strength and ergo, Rollon wasn't really strong. Rather slyly I thought, the editor of H&S had planted a little squib directly below Van Diggelin's letter to the effect that Rollon had been in the Russian city of Minsk giving a stage exhibition and had been challenged by a member of the audience to show how strong he really was at the local club, in lifting weights. Rollon after the show, repaired to the club and at around 168 or so did a two hands press with 264, then promptly flopped onto his back, pulled over 330 and did several repetitions press on back with it.
There was also some very acid correspondence twixt good old Willoughby and Jowett re the latter's insistence on charging 50 cents to anyone who WANTED to make an attempt on breaking a record, Dave holding, and rightly in my opinion, that they should be charged 50 cents for REGISTERING the lift if and when they made a record.
Well, this is shorter than my usual, but I'll have loads to report on my return my NYC. In the meantime, and if the plane crashes or terrorists shoot up the airport and I'm there, so long and all the best to you and yours, Chas
Letter from Charles A. Smith to Joe Roark May 25, 1986
Thanks for your letter dated May 12th. Sorry I haven't replied more promptly but I haven't been feeling too good- depressed and not sleeping well at night.
The trip up to NYC went without a hitch- not as I expected it to be- somewhat of a disaster. But then at my age I, and others of my 'gap' always tend to look on the gloomy side.
Todd and I had a room on the 22nd floor with a fine view of the River and the Statue of Liberty and Ellis Island. Room comfortable and meals ditto. Apart from Leo Murdock hollering his head off over the mike and running on and on like an untreated dose of the clap, it wasn't too bad an affair with 150 odd people there. The only fault I had to find was with the somewhat unfortunate choice of the meal- CHICKEN KIEV- which made Terry remark we might all be glowing in the dark.
I met up with Fred Howell but we didn't get much of a chance to chat, Fred being busy snapping this and that in all directions and chatting up everyone within reach.
Had a very nice talk with Grimek who greeted me with warmth as did Jules Bacon. In our chat Grimek hinted he blamed Mike XXX for all the trouble- or most of it, saying he, XXX, had robbed the company of thousands. Also said XXX had tried to cheat him out of some funds to do with his pension fund. Also told me that he and his wife had visited Hoffman when he was in the hospital, had chatted with him for more than a couple of hours and when they got up to leave Hoffman remarked "Don't I know you from somewhere?" My opinion is that the suit will be settled out of court since it seems to me that the 'heirs' want to go off with their 'gains'.
Joni Lee MacFadden(sic) also attended to make the presentation to Grimek. She is now in her early eighties. Looks alright and must have made a trip to the beauty parlor beforehand since she was elaborately coiffured , wore a girlish garden party dress and a wide picture hat. It didn't do her any good. She is a bit wobbly on her pins and weak in her pipes but for her age does well. Unfortunately she had to get onto what a difficult man MacFadden was to live with and how he gave her a set of dumbbells on their wedding night as a present. Well at least it was something hard. And with balls on it. Ah me.
I was not only surprised but touched by the number of guys who came up and thanked me for the way in which I had helped them. A load of fellows from the Bronx Y where I set up the first lifting class and club were also there and remembered me with a lot of warmth.
EDER�NO� he didn't come up once to speak with me. I saw him looking at me. I saw him listening to me when I said a few words of tribute to Grimek. But not once did he come over to say Hi. So UP HIS.
Hope you enjoy yourself at the Jones. As far as I am concerned they can go take a flying copulation at themselves. I called up Flanagan as you suggested and was told he wasn't at his desk. So they handed me over to that other guy you mentioned- can't recall his name. I told him why I had called- about preserving the mags and was treated in the most insulting and patronizing manner, as if I was a bloody old fool. I was then asked if I was calling on the WATS and on replying I was, was asked my number and was told, "I'll get back to you." He never did. I don't like this sort of shit at all. I'm not a dummy and don't want to be treated like one.
Fly you to and back to Illinois and Florida in ONE day? That's quite a fast trip friend.
As for Glossbrenner's 'research'- it was faulty to a fault. He listed the world records presses. But he forgot to mention the fact that while some of them were done in strict Olympic style in which NO BACK BEND was permitted the following BIGGER press records weren't really presses at all but made with heaves and backbends so deep they left the lifters with splinters on the tops of their heads. The press of Davis was, in my opinion and though less by far in poundage to the later Russian lifters, a much better PRESS than the two hands continental and PUSH that passed for a press. And the same goes for Anderson's and Hepburn's presses which were by far BETTER LIFTS than those performed by the Russians which weren't presses at all.
It wasn't Hoffman who bought the so called 'barbell' from Travis but another cat. And Travis DID dupe this guy who got not a barbell but a collection of gear wheels on a bar. IN ADDITION to a dollar charge extra for the 'tip' which Travis gave to the man who helped him load the car, shipping the 'barbell'. Travis was a close hand with the buck. Died quite a wealthy man so I am told.
In one of your letters you mentioned about a certain gal XXX was tied up with- said to be a whore- named XXX or some such and you'd tell me all about it when we met. You never did, so give up.
No to my sorrow, I haven't talked to the young lady since that gym time. I haven't been down to the place since I was there with you.
The flight to NYC and back was smooth sailing, apart from the meals which were horrible. They served a stuff called CLAM chowder. If there were any clams in the stuff, they must have stood back three hundred yards and tossed them at the pot.
All for now. Oh before I shut up. Three new records. The Bulgarian FEATHERWEIGHT Sulimanov has snatched 319 and cleaned and jerked 413 in official competition for new worlds records. Ain't that something.
Also the record two hands dead lift made by Goerner on October 20th in 1920 of 793 has after 66 years been equaled by Joe Hood of the U of T team. Joe lifts drug free. Did it with a reverse grip whereas Goerner did it with both knuckles to the front� Best to you and yours, Chas.
Remember the free forum at ironhistory.com We are slowly adding quality members with a sincere passion for the history of our sport!
See you Dec 26th!
Posted by TheEditor @ 07:57 PM CST
Dec 12, 2004 ironhistory.com
Thursday, December 11, 2003
Please keep in mind the free forum at ironhistory.com and join us if you feel inclined to. One of the matters we concern ourselves with at ironhistory.com is the preservation of accurate record keeping. That brings us to this week's examination:
Roy Hilligenn. Facts/Fiction/Fusion! Born Nov 15, 1922, but WHERE!!
By Joe RoarkMuscleMag International in January 2003 presented a Star Profile interview with Roy. In that article are presented some statements which completely disagree with statements that have been presented in the past regarding Roy.
This week let's dig for facts from that MuscleMag mishmash and other sources!
"Everyone thinks I'm from South Africa, but I wasn't born there. I was born in California on November 15, 1922." That, of course, would mean that Roy is a U.S. citizen. But for years he has been listed as the only non-American to win the AAU Mr. America (June 15, 1951 in Los Angeles). Osmo Kiiha interviewed Roy some years ago and quoted Roy as saying, "How come I could win the AAU Mr. A., never mind allowed to compete (sic) not being a U.S. citizen at the time."
Really? Hilligenn wrote in Your Physique Jul 1950 that "I was born in 1922 in King Williamstown, South Africa, a beautiful, fertile, agricultural town."
And compare the above to S&H Feb 1963 p 12 where a profile on Roy by Jenkins includes: "He was the only foreign citizen ever to win this title [Mr. America]. Hilligenn was born and raised in South Africa�"]
Also compare to Health & Strength Apr 16, 1953 p 23 by John Mendes, "Bosco writes me that he may be sponsoring Roy Hilligenn as an American citizen. Roy, as you know, is a South African by birth. But he has made his home in the States (in 1951 he collared the Mr. America title) and is now applying for citizenship."
But H&S in the July 9, 1953 issue page 25 reveals from Mendes that "A flash from British United Press says that Roy Hilligenn, 1951 Mr. America, is being deported from the States because he is not a US citizen.
"The immigration director in San Francisco says Hilligenn is at Vancouver awaiting transport back to his native South Africa.
"He said Hilligenn was found to have entered the United States from Canada in 1948 on a 28-day visa to take part in a New York weightlifting contest.
"He admitted Hilligenn never attempted to change his name or to conceal his South African birth."
There is more but the point has been made which The Chicago Bodybuilder editor Norb Grueber headlined in March 1949, "Mr. South Africa Comes to Chicago."
Roy told Lori Grannis (MuscleMag writer) that he left South Africa in 1947, and indeed his letter to Strength & Health magazine in the April 1945 issue page 10 was sent from Jeppe, Johannesburg, Transvaal, S. Africa., and in the letter he claims to have won 'South Africa's Best Developed Man', 'South Africa's Finest Physique', and 'Best All Round Athlete'. One wonders regarding the requirements for citizenship to win those titles.
Health & Strength magazine in the July 17, 1947 issue page 546 presented a full page photo of Roy as Mr. South Africa 1946.
From S&H Oct 1951, after recounting his childhood in South Africa, he then adds, "I saw my way clear in 1946 to travel abroad. Before coming to America I spent approximately a year in England." A few paragraphs later he avers that "My first show in the USA was at John Terlazzo's display." A few sentences later "Later I migrated to California�" and "In 1949 I entered my first contest in America, the 'Mr. California' event. I placed third in this." (this contradicts what he told Grannis years later in MMI)
Photo page 229 informs that 'Roy won five of the six trophies at the Mr. Pacific Coast, 1950.' In fact, Roy won the Mr. Pacific Coast May 28, 1949
P 230 "When I was at 159 pounds in 1945, I clean[ed] and jerk[ed] 341, which equaled the world record."
Other claims: Won Mr. San Francisco 1949 [that was won by Jim Allen Nov 13, 1949] See Ironman Jan 1950 p 7
Won Mr. Northern California 1949 [that was won by Ellwood Holbrook Feb 26, 1949] see Strength & Health May 1949 p 43
Won Mr. California 1949 [that was won by Milton Lippman Apr 30, 1949] see Muscle Poswer Sep 1949 p 13
Third place Mr. California 1950 [on Mar 18, 1950 third place was Alvin Lee] Hilligenn did not participate.
Won Mr. California 1951 [ Apr 14, 1951, winner was Malcom Brenner ]
At 1950 Jr. National Weightlifting championships he broke John Davis' record clean and jerk, making 365. In fact, on Apr 30, 1950 Roy placed second to John Farbotnik in the Jr. Mr. America contest. Hilligenn did not compete in the 1950 Jr. Nats, and no one who did managed a 365 clean and jerk. See S&H Jul 1950 p 47. 49.
[ for perspective, consider: In 1950 at the World's Weightlifting Championships in Paris Oct 13-15, the heaviest C&J was by American John Davis, who managed 374.75 lbs, thereby attaining the highest total ever then accumulated: 1,019.25 lbs. Six months earlier, Roy had come within 9 lbs of this feat? In fairness, Roy was an incredible lifter in the C&J and has been credited with 350, and a 255 lb press, and 250 snatch]
So what is the point of all this? Collect old magazines and watch how the story details evolve!
Posted by TheEditor @ 09:00 PM CST
Dec 5, 2003
Thursday, December 4, 2003
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Letter from Charles A. Smith to Joe Roark, April 16, 1986
Thanks for your letter dated April 11th. Glad to see you made it home OK and imagined you'd be busy catching up with your notes and other important things.
PLEASE don't thank me for having you at my home. It was a quid pro quo in that you stayed with me and I got some good conversation- a rare commodity on the beach for me. I rarely talk to anyone but myself- but then in that case it's a change to talk to someone with sense.
Terry, by continually beating me with those two kettlebells has finally 'convinced' me I should go to the OT [old timers'] Bash. But I am still somewhat apprehensive lest I prove to be a drag, a hindrance, a nuisance and what ever other epithet you can think of.
It also seems that word has gotten out of my going. I had a long letter from Grimek OFFERING to PAY MY WAY UP AND BACK and saying how keen he was to meet up with me after thirty three years- it's been since Bill Pearl won the Mr. America [1953]. I of course thanked him for his mind thoughts and offer and declined.
Ed Jubinville also called and I spoke with him briefly. He too is agog with my going- can't figure our why he should be- and again it's been more than thirty years since I saw Ed. Vic Boff says he is keeping my coming as a surprise. I opined this was good since if he let the feline out of the sack they- the guests- might stay away in droves. Anyway, I am going and will clue you in as to who said what and to whom.
The other day I was wearing your T shirt at work and some young piece of slick skin said, 'Who's Joe Roark?' I told her you were a notorious criminal wanted by the FBI and Canadian Internal Security for selling nubile Eskimo Maidens to salacious Saudi Arabian Sheiks- try twisting that one around your sodding tongue a few fast times- and, what do you know- she DIDN'T BELIEVE ME. People just don't trust you anymore these days.
Had a letter from Leo Gaudreau and he says he knows nada about the NOCK name in Katie Sandwina's family tree. He did say that he met Katie once when she was with Ringling Brothers and B&B and gave her a shot of her husband she wanted but had been unable to get hold of. John Dawe also knows naught of Nock, Ditto Grimek who wants to be kept clued in if I turn anything up.
He also said that when Katie died her husband tried to sell York the Life Story of Katie� They asked to see it finding it to be naught but a big bunch of news clippings. They turned him down since they could have gone to any paper morgue and got the same stuff for free. They he asked them to give him three hundred bucks for the clippings and they said NAY. Loudly.
Got a call from Bob Kennedy the other day and he says that he just had the last issue of S&H poked under his door and it was pitiful. So it seems that the mag died not with a bang, but a whimper. Also said that not in the entire issue had the name of Hoffie been mentioned. As I remarked to you, it had become a flint that struck no sparks of inspiration.
Grimek also told me that Klein had gained back a bit of weight but that rumor has it that the malignancy has spread to his liver. So what happens from here on in is anyone's guess. I know the liver is about the only organ of the body with powers of regeneration, BUT�.
In the letter from Leo Gaudreau, he also mentioned that he had been a guest at Ben Weider's wedding. That Ben married a French-Canadian girl, the wedding being held in a SYNAGOGUE with both Jewish religionists and French Canadian Catholics being present. That Ben had also written to him later saying his wife had given birth to twin boys, that later on he had also written to say they were both now in college. I remember seeing one of them with Ben at the 1969 Mr. Something or other in Brooklyn when Vera and I were up there in 1969. The kid was around ten or so and a blond.
Have turned up more about McFadden's divorce from Jonni Lee. The poor old sod must have been driven up the wall by her. I never did care for the looks of her. She appeared to be a well traveled road.
Well, enjoyed your company and you are welcome ANY TIME. I'll write more when I have something to write about.
Oh, before I forget, XXX told me that this T. Derek Sobel is a NADA. That he buys awards and has them presented to him at various meets. The wonder of it all to me is why people go along with him and why they don't tell him to stuff his plaques where the monkey stuffed the coconuts.
Best of everything to you and yours,
Chas.See you at the forum at ironhistory.com every day, and our next column here will be on Dec 12th!
Posted by TheEditor @ 07:46 PM CST
