Iron History with Joe Roark

Joe Roark's IronHistoryArchives.com

The HUGE library of Iron History compiled by Joe Roark.

Welcome to Iron History with Joe Roark!

Joe Roark has been studying the iron game since 1957, and by 1970 began a systematic gathering of information on index cards. By the time his first computer was acquired, there were several hundred thousand references to be typed into it.
For a few years he published his own newsletter called MuscleSearch: The Roark Report. By 1992 he was appointed as the IFBB Men's Bodybuilding Historian, and began writing about history for FLEX in his column Factoids. For ten years he contributed to Iron Game History from the U of Texas at Austin. Recently he also began writing All Our Yesterdays for FLEX.
His passion has always been the period between 1880 and 1920, with particular emphasis on the oldtime strongmen of that era. Joe will be offering bits of history for Cyberpump once per week, and the text will be relevant to the dates of the calendar for those events of yesteryear relevant to the coming week.
In this column, readers will also be able to ask Joe questions or comment on his posts. Note: The comments are solely for interaction between Joe and the readers only -- not reader to reader.

9/26/2008: The first two pages of a letter from Charles A. Smith to Joe from December 11, 1987
Thursday, September 25, 2008
Letter from Charles A. Smith to Joe Roark December 11, 1987 pp1-2
Dear Joe,
Got your latest the other day and again congrats are in order. The newsletter gets better each time one is shoved out. Keep it up.
Before I get into the meal, may I wish you and your family all the best for the coming Holiday and New Year. May things be prosperous for you and yours, and, above all, may you be happy.
My oldest grand daughter- my oldest daughter, Evelyn�s daughter�now doesn�t THAT sound complicated�graduated the same day as your kid did, from the University of Texas School of Business Administration and at once landed herself a job with the Target chain store, salary for starters 18,700 a year, with a 7 percent raise after her probationary period as manager trainee. Not bad for a kid of 24.
I am enclosing by separate letter some clippings from a British Mag- STRENGTH ATHLETE- the one who stole my article and published it under someone else�s name. These cuttings should prove of interest to you.
One is by a man named Tony Fitton, British, I am ashamed to say, which purports to be an interview of Bill Kazmeier. Fitton was caught at the Texas- belay that- California and Mexico border with a load of drugs in his car, worth three quarters of a million on the street. Placed on bail before trial, he promptly skipped town and remained loose for a year before US Marshalls caught up with him in Colorado. He got five years, but for some weird reason did only a few months, after conviction for drug smuggling and unlawful flight to avoid justice. How in the hell he wasn�t deported on moral turpitude charges is beyond me. You will notice references to the Reverend in the �article�. I feel sure these are stabs at Reverend Todd because of the part the Reverend played in Fitton�s conviction- so the Reverend says.
But of greater interest is the stuff about the Bombay Bullshit artist, to wit, Sri Chinmoy. You will note the abusive tone of the letter about David Webster. The writer, Levine, calls himself AGRA, no doubt an abbreviation of aggravate.
You will also notice that they dwell more on what the Cheerie Chapp has done for world peace, the poems he has composed, the books he has written and his 100 thousand odd paintings. What these have to do with his lifting 7000 with one arm I don�t know. They also dwell on how he �psyched� himself up, his mental powers that allowed him to press with one arm that enormous weight. The author of the article who calls herself B. Torpy does not give her real name but a Hindu adopted name. Her piece can easily be picked to pieces. If the Cheery Chappie�s mental powers are such that he can lift over three tons with one arm, how much more easier would it be for him to bring the weight down to earth and do a one hand dead lift of 700 or a two hands clean and jerk of 600. I am afraid we won�t see these feats. What we shall see however are those Moonbeams From The Larger Lunacy shouting even louder at all who say the Cheery Chappie is a bullshit artist.
They also wrote a very caustic, indeed threatening, letter to IM re: the Reverend�s article recently carried in. This, I guess, you have seen. It would appear to be that little of the Cheery Chappie�s teachings of peace and brotherhood have rubbed off on his cohorts. Meanwhile Sri Chinmoy- I can�t remember if I have told you this �has been sued by the United Nations for unauthorized use of their logo.
Your stuff on Arthur Saxon was very enjoyable. BUT, I have a lot of doubt in my mind about the feats he claimed, or may have been claimed for him.
At no time, nowhere, have I ever seen any description of how Saxon got the bar into his shoulder before bent pressing it. NOWHERE.
If you can get hold of Bill Pullumn�s book, WEIGHTLIFTING MADE EASY AND INTERESTING, you will see that in those days the bent press was used as a competition lift and there were two methods allowed. The Bent Press, one hand into the shoulder and the Bent Press two hands into the shoulder. Thus there were two ways of cleaning the weight before bent pressing it- cleaning it with one hand and cleaning it with two.
Obviously no man could do a clean of over 300 with one hand and no man could clean a 385 pound weight with two hands then. The way a bent press was cleaned with two hands was by grasping the bar, dead center with both hands holding the bar at the same place, THEN heaving it into the shoulder. There was also a third way of bent pressing, and that was �anyhow into the shoulder�. But this way entailed difficulties that would have taken too much out of the lifter to have enabled him to bent press anywhere close to 385 claimed either by, or for, Saxon. So, was it handed to him by two other men? No one seems to know.
I have always doubted his two hands anyhow of 448, There he is in the body bent double position with 336 overhead with one arm, grasping a 112 pound dumbbell on the floor, cleaning that up to his left shoulder, recovering to UPRIGHT POSITION THEN military pressing the 112 to arms length. NO SIR. Can�t be done especially at 210 bodyweight. To accept the bent press claims made for or by Saxon, I want to know where each titanic lift was performed, who were present as officials to weight the weight and pass judgment on its authenticity.
Like the tales told of Oscar Wilde in his many biographies, some �Just ain�t so� stories have been repeated and embellished. This is so in tales of Saxon. It is plain the Saxons drank beer and in quantities that would seem prodigious to those who were not born in Germany, where it is drunk as often as Chinese drink tea.
[next week, pages 3-4]

Posted by TheEditor @ 05:18 PM CST
9/19/2008: Letter from Charles A. Smith to Joe Roark- Nov 3, 1987 Conclusion.
Thursday, September 18, 2008
Letter from Charles A. Smith to Joe Roark- Nov 3, 1987 conclusion.
It may be that brother Louis [Weider] did die in the manner Joe told. But I don�t think so. On the other hand, one can understand Joe�s reluctance to talk about it- of course take into consideration how things as congenital deformities and such were looked on in those days. But what strikes me as very strange is that not once, during the eight years I worked for him, did ANY of the Weiders talk about any brother than �Ben� or �Joe�.
Getting back to the class distinction in England. The following may seem absolutely beyond American understanding, but happen it did. I graduated from high school when I was fourteen. I should have gone into a prep school for a University, but my parents were working class and there was no dough. So I took myself to night school and had courses in shorthand and typing�Pitman�s shorthand, now a thing of the past. I got very very good. Look at my typing now!
At sixteen, I applied for a job at the Midland Bank as a clerical worker. Not only was I a hot shot at shorthand and typing, but I could also speak French and a little German. I went before the staff manager, a bloke whose name I will always remember, a Mr. Dawkes.
He looked at my school learning certificate and beamed. He asked me what I could do. I told him about the shorthand and typing. He exclaimed, �Remarkable or a BOY of 16�. He sat medown, dictated a short letter, asked me to type it out and beamed again when I had finished. I then told him I spoke French. So he calls some guy into his office and says, �Speak French�. I did, a short conversation with the bloke, who remarks to Dawkes I�m the real McCoy. Dawkes beams again and says, �We have a bright future for a lad like you� or words to this effect. Then we get down to the nitty gritty. Where was I born? I say Bermondsey- a dock side district. A slight frown clouds the brow of Dawkes. He then asks me what my father did for a living, and instead of me lying and saying �Sanitary Engineer�, I say �DUSTMAN� or as we call the job here GARBAGE COLLECTOR. That was it. �Sorry�, says Dawkes, �the other clerks wouldn�t hear of a lad whose father was a dustman becoming a CLERK. All we can offer you is a job as a messenger�. I huffed and puffed, being a rebel even then. My old man made me take the job. Fathers did such things in those days and would not take NAY for an answer. There I would have stayed for the rest of my life, no promotion, doing the most menial jobs heaved at me from arse wiping to getting cups of teas for those too lazy to get up off their chairs to do their own job.
At one time I was even called into the staff office and told I was �dressing above my station. When I told them that what I spent my hard earned money on was my own business, I was at once shoved onto running an elevator. I can�t help thinking how many bright young minds were thrown away like that. That�s why I got out of England. Six years combat duty and all I would come back to was the same old shit. Not for me.
Brother XXX sent me a copy of his book�and asked me to tell what I thought of it�It was the same old stuff� The Subtle Technique. This is putting washers on the bar- washers weighing a few ounces, rather than plates, the least of which scales 1-1/4.
I hollered at him for this, among many other things, including very hazy descriptions of how to do various exercises- telling him it has been used in the London lifting clubs in the 20�s and 30�s, that Ron Walker used it when training for the press- he was a poor presser. He, XXX, demurs, saying it WAS new. Finally after quoting many quotes and instances etc etc, he finally admits to me�I have his letter�that he got the idea of a 1960 IRON MAN where the Honest Nebraskan also called it the SUBTLE TECHNIQUE, a technique that is about as subtle as a falling piledriver.
XXX is most irked at me hauling his book over the white hot Smythian criticism and says if it wasn�t for the fact that he was my friend- he wouldn�t be my friend any more- sort that one out if you can. Much like Sam Goldwyn�s lyric, �A verbal agreement ain�t worth the paper it is printed on. Or his �Include me out�.
There has been a thudding silence from Brother Balik where he used to phone me at least once monthly. He is supposed to go monthly in March- his mag and not any sort of menstrual climacteric.
Jowett is not to be believed. Inspring he was, but truthful he wasn�t. He told Ottley some wild story of going to England in the 1960�s and being introduced to the Queen who complimented him on the books he had written of meeting Lords and Earls who sang hosannas to his literary accomplishments. You should read some of his letters to Ottley. Weird.
There was a time when HEALTH AND STRENGTH was published every week. In those days it had a black red and white cover. You should also remember that it was a PHYSICAL CULTURE journal as opposed to the totally lifting mags of today.
Better close for now Joe. Have a good time in Florida. Regards to the family and power to Meg�s academic pen,
Chas.

Posted by TheEditor @ 07:44 PM CST
9/12/2008: Letter from Charles A. Smith to Joe Roark, Nov 3, 1987
Thursday, September 11, 2008
Letter from Charles A. Smith to Joe Roark, Nov 3, 1987 pages 1-2:
Dear Joe,
Thanks for yours post dated 29th which arrived on the 31st. As for the saga of the Wonderkind�s mum, as the king of Siam would say- It is a puzzlement. My thought on the matter is that Ben thought, �Any publicity is better than none�. If he bothered to think deeply, he�d see it is stupid to say such a thing since this is so easily checked. Like his claiming he has been decorated with the Order of Canada. He only has the Canadian Medal. If I may explain here.
This sort of nonsense is still a dinosaur from the era of class distinction in England. During the war there were various decorations handed out for bravery to members of the armed forces. Frinstance. A Soldier, for some particularly piece of derring do would be awarded the Military Medal. For the same act, no more or no less bravery, an OFFICER would be awarded the MILITARY CROSS. In the Navy, an enlisted man for an act of bravery would be awarded the Distinguished Service Medal. An officer, for the same act, the Distinguished Cross. The only award that was exempt from this particularly nasty piece of nonsense was the highest decoration awarded�the VICTORIA CROSS�the same as our Congressional Medal of Honor.
It was the same among civilian awards. In England some particular piece of outstanding service of devotion would be, to the ordinary man the British Empire Medal. To the Hoi Arristoi�or �Gentlemen� as they were called- would be awarded the ORDER OF THE BRITISH EMPIRE. I guess you get the drift by now�that Ben isn�t regarded in Canada�which still retains some of the class distinction of the British- as a �gentleman�. It is not only a sloppy piece of reporting, but stupid on the part of Ben to claim he was awarded one thing when he wasn�t. But that is where pretension will get you.
I am not at all enamored with XXX. I am beginning to think he is a phony and a brain picker, such info appearing in his books or articles. He seems also to have that �Look at me. Ain�t I GREAT� attitude, as if being a book producer will get him rides on city transportation without having to pay the fare called for.
[He asked me for] info on arm wrestling. I sent him some exercises that he could have figured out for himself without asking anyone. Which goes to show what sort of an expert he is when it comes to bodybuilding. In my letter to him, I let him know that I saw through him by saying that any mention of what I had told him, in any article or book, had to have me as the source. It might not pass for subtle, but then I never was a subtle man, preferring to use the bludgeon rather than the rapier.
His mention that he is in heavy communication with me, gave me to laugh as the French so quaintly put it. He writes at intervals of six weeks to two months. Frinstance his last letter was dated September 26th. This was the one in which he asked for info on exercise for armwrestling exercises�among other things�and the one before that July 14th and the one before that stretching some farther into the past. Every letter he writes is a brain picking one. He always wants something, some sort of info on how to exercise this or that part of the body. One would think that a man who writes books on the subject of bodybuilding would �know his stuff� and the only info needed would be of an historical nature.
He even once asked me how TO WEITE ARTICLES, how to write the �lead� and how to wind up with a heavy punch. I sent him the book �ELEMENTS OF STYLE� by some bloke with the lovely name of STRUNK. No thanks from brother XXX and no smoked salmon either.
In my last letter I made the somewhat pointed, bludgeony remark that the smoked salmon, when it arrived, would taste mighty good. It must be arriving by Indian Pack Carrier, portaging his canoe around the many hundreds of rapids that exist in the great North West and Wilds of Alaska.
I think that the next time he writes asking for info, I shall send back a reply querying him on the effects of the moon on fishing, or if he thinks jam fancying should be encouraged among the islanders of microAsia. But no info.
To belabor the argument, XXX is a �people user�. When he has squeezed the lemon dry, he discards it.
[TV show] Sixty Minutes has covered the muscle business, so be amazed no more. This was some few years ago, I can�t remember when now. But lo and behold, the sweet faces of both Ben and Joe appeared on the silver tube. First Ben, who opined, when asked, that the Weider Company did a gross business of TWO MILLION A YEAR. Then on comes Joe�immediately after and the same question is asked of Joe. Think not that Joe replied out of honesty, but honest he was�he replied that because of the violently shoving of his ego. Joe replied TWENTY MILLION and even at that he was way below the mark. Mayhap you can find out when this interview took place. It was either in the very very late seventies or the early eighties.
I have no doubt that Joe, when he said he was bringing me to his lair when he �arrived back from Europe� meant what he said, but Joe is impulsive and what impulses him one second un-impulses him the next. I WILL NOT hold my breath. No sir.
Joe called me because I had sent him a stinging letter in which I took him to task for the odor of the barnyard what wafted from the pages of his mag. In particular I said that to get through one of his mags, one had to wear hip high waders so ones brogans would remain unbesmirched by all the bovine bowel movement. Some of his high powered PhD�s who tell you how to get muscles in your maturation- already yet- hadn�t even lifted a weight themselves�in short, Joe was dazzling you with science. I also hollered at him for calling his Mr. World in Japan in 1986 the 40th of its kind. Taking it back year by year, that would bring you to 1946 when Joe hadn�t even thought of running contests and, in fact had just published the first edition of his first mag- YOUR PHYSIQUE.
[Roark note: Charles is in error on this pount, that title began in 1940]
continued next week�

Posted by TheEditor @ 09:05 PM CST
09/05/2008: Completing a Letter from Charles A. Smith to Joe dated October 27, 1987
Thursday, September 4, 2008
Pages 3 & 4 of a letter written by Charles A. Smith to Joe Roark, dated Oct 27, 1987.
Warning: this letter contains some politically incorrect words, but I am leaving them as Charles wrote them as they reflect the feelings of another person, whose identity I will not reveal here.
[Regarding the book: MASS] You should read it from cover to cover, closely, word for word. You will get great pleasure from it. Pleasure because it is so lovely when you stop reading it. Across the front cover is a banner head line, NEW BODYBUILDING SECRETS. There isn�t anything secret in it and there isn�t anything new. Some of the exercises are so incomprehensible you wonder what he is gibbering about. Perhaps the only thing in the book that interested me was the diet section- and that only because I am a noted chow hound.
Poor old XXX walks around in a cultural and political cloud, not knowing where he is, what he is thinking about and what he is doing or can do about the �can do�. He is full of Ricans, Niggers, and foreigners who don�t know how to keep their homes clear of filth and litter, who all have Cadillacs and live on welfare�forgetting that, when you are poor, screwing is the cheapest form of entertainment available. And, might I add, much better than a trip to the local Picture Palace.
I don�t blame XXX. I try to get him to read history and other such books that might help him explain the state of the world to himself. He has recently involved himself in some sort of minor political fuzz buzz where he lives, with the local coppers and their chief who gets forty thousand a year. XXX doesn�t think he should get forty thou and is calling Town Meeting Protest Rallies. Signatures for recall lists and other non productive stuff. What he should be doing is booby rapping the Chief�s toilet so it flushes UP instead of that usual whirly whirly way. XXX is a good old sort- he�s 55 now- had his birthday a week ago- has no kids, is uxurious- a word that Hise loved�and keeps pets to take the place of kids. He is harmless and I like him. He is one of the very very few who answers letters regularly, and when he can�t, at least calls and chit chats on the phone for long intervals. Don�t take him too seriously. Like the guy I mentioned earlier in this letter, he doesn�t know his tits from his testicles and all he knows is what he reads in the paper. I do my best, suggesting this or that book for him to read and he does follow some of what I advise him. But I like him. If I were you, I would try and establish regular letter writing twixt he and thee.
I felt sure I had mentioned Lincir�s weights and Bert Elliot. Must have been some other bloke. I at first thought it was Harry Hill who had them, and I have been told he got a lot of Bert�s library. Don�t know for sure.
Re XXX. I have been told various things. What I do know for certain is that he has had little connection with actual lifting, being a strand puller of note. I also am told he is as tight as a virgin on her wedding night, when it comes to money. He HAS to have his cut even if he has little to do with a book�such as XXX�s book when XXX was supplied with shots by XXX and XXX had to be billed as co-author when he wasn�t. Such stuff.
I am aware that he is niggardly when it comes to sharing info. I feel here that this is because he writes books and what is the use of writing a book when the info in it has appeared elsewhere?
I also know he lived for years with a woman who wasn�t his wife- she was some sort of actress and died of cancer not too many years ago and XXX was very, very upset over it. Here I am not saying there was anything wrong with his being married, as it were, without a churching. Or even a civil ceremony. After all, Love is a battlefield in which ANYTHING goes so long as no one gets hurt. So, though some people I know fault him for �living in sin�, I certainly don�t.
But on the other hand, I also know he helped David Chapman considerably to run down those of Sandow�s progeny who are still living, or their progeny who are still around. And I also know that when I asked him outright where they are and who they are, SILENCE, and I do mean silence, fell with a thickening sud.
I have a feeling that Bollocks isn�t long for this world- his mag I mean. I may be wrong, but I don�t like that non paying of authors/ Last time I called him regarding the non printing�for the second time�of my Eder article, he told me he was going monthly in March. I also notice he is carrying his own products now s well as Lincir�s.
Now, Ed Robinson. At a height of 5 feet 7 and a bodyweight of 235 I can believe he might have had an arm close to 20. But I am NOT prepared to believe he had an arm taping 19 at 198. Bert Assirati stood 5 feet 6, scaled way over 230 and had enormous arms that measured�and I did the measuring a snug 18. That shot of Bill Pullum taping Goerner�s arm was taken around 1927 when Goerner was at his MUSCULAR BEST and scaled 220. It was around the time I saw him do that one hand deadlift with 602-1/4. Goerner was a tad over six feet tall. Later, when he was around 290, his arms taped slightly over 19 and his wrists were around 9 inches.
It amuses me greatly Balik talking about the �British� style of journalism when the British got that style from such solid British citizens as Joseph Pulitzer, Bernarr Macfadden and William Randolph Hearst, not to mention Colonel Robert McCormick of the Chicago newspaper dynasty.
I write Webster and it is sometimes MONTHS before he replies, I am sure he wouldn�t reply if I was some ordinary bloke and Webbie thought I had naught in my library. It appears to me, and I may be wrong, he is very acquisitive with the instincts of a pack rat. Gather, gather all and sundry.
I am happy you and your lady get along well�The family is all that is of REAL value in this piss arse rotten world of ours. So Live until you are old and learn until you are old, and when you are old you will find you haven�t learned anything and haven�t really lived at all.
The best to you and yours, as ever, Chas.
PS: I don�t know the name of Saxons� sister. Thought he only had 3 brothers.

Posted by TheEditor @ 07:39 PM CST