Iron History with Joe Roark

Joe Roark's IronHistoryArchives.com

The HUGE library of Iron History compiled by Joe Roark.

Welcome to Iron History with Joe Roark!

Joe Roark has been studying the iron game since 1957, and by 1970 began a systematic gathering of information on index cards. By the time his first computer was acquired, there were several hundred thousand references to be typed into it.
For a few years he published his own newsletter called MuscleSearch: The Roark Report. By 1992 he was appointed as the IFBB Men's Bodybuilding Historian, and began writing about history for FLEX in his column Factoids. For ten years he contributed to Iron Game History from the U of Texas at Austin. Recently he also began writing All Our Yesterdays for FLEX.
His passion has always been the period between 1880 and 1920, with particular emphasis on the oldtime strongmen of that era. Joe will be offering bits of history for Cyberpump once per week, and the text will be relevant to the dates of the calendar for those events of yesteryear relevant to the coming week.
In this column, readers will also be able to ask Joe questions or comment on his posts. Note: The comments are solely for interaction between Joe and the readers only -- not reader to reader.

Iron History Sep 20, 2002
Thursday, September 19, 2002
HOPELESS: We will confine Red Pencil History to the articles in mags I encounter by subscription or on the newsstands. Attempting to correct the errors on the internet would keep me busier than, as my grandmother used to say, 'a one-armed wall-paper hanger'. It sometimes seems hopeless- how so much misinformation can be billion-folded and hurled into cyberspace, where newbies with moist rear ears understandably believe what is pitched by 'authorities'.
MAIL excerpt: from Bob Hornick: Enclosed you will find some photo copies of those kettlebells that Andy Jackson made for me. They were his last official customer order while Jackson Barbell still belonged to him. I have this from him in letters he wrote before and after the order and he also mentioned it in phone and in personal conversations.
Dimensions: handle 6.5" wide, 4.0 inches circumference at the grip, attached to the globe by a 1 and 1/16 machined bar with a cap at the bottom. The globe, hollow, of course is 7.5 inches diameter and 24.0 inches circumference. Empty this globe weighs in at a bit over 25 lbs. I think I mentioned the whole unit is 35 lbs, make that actually a bit over 30 lbs for each kettlebell based on what I always considered 3 lbs for each 12 inches of 1 and 1/16 diameter steel, the handle and the bolts accounting for the rest.
Sep 20, 1895 Bergman Rottenfusser one finger lift 553.25 lbs, twenty inches off the floor for two reps. Really?
Sep 20, 1928 Sig Klein on the cover of The Athletik Zeitung
Sep 20 or 21, 1952 Dietrich Wortmann died; born Jan 11, 1884
Sep 21, 1900 K. Schuster jerked 110.25 lbs for 55 reps
Sep 21, 1912 Swoboda and Goerner photographed together in Leipzig. Swoboda would have been age 30, Goerner age 21.
Sep 21, 1913 Goerner right hand clean and almost jerk of 286.5 lbs. Although Hermann jerked the weight, it was not fixed overhead. He was age 22.
Sep 21, 1919 Goerner left hand swing 2 kettleweights 193 lbs total. Age 28
Sep 21, 1948 Ian Lawrence born. Competed several times in the NABBA Universe from 1973 to 1988, winning the overall amateur in 1975, and placing second in the pro division in 1983.
Sep 21, 1961 Lisa Lorio born. Women's Physique World editor Steve Wennerstom in the Fall 1987 issue introduced Lisa as 'Muscular Beauty From the Bayou State'. Lisa remained with the type of physique that the general public could accept in a muscular woman, which factor, coupled with her beauty, provided her with several appearances in the mags in the early 1990s.
Sep 21, 1963 Tom Sansone won the amateur NABBA Universe and Joe Abbenda won the pro NABBA Universe
Sep 21, 1968 Arnold Schwarzenegger won the amateur NABBA Universe, and Dennis Tinerino won the pro NABBA Universe
Sep 21, 1968 Frank Zane won the IFBB Mr. America in NYC, and Chuck Sipes won the Mr. World.
Sep 21, 1989 John McCallum died; born Aug 20, 1926
Sep 22, 1912 Swoboda two hands press (did not clean it) of 150.7 kgs 3 reps
Sep 22, 1917 Joe Greenstein's daughter Minnie born
Sep 22, 1940 The Strength & Health picnic. This would have been almost four months after the 1940 Mr. America won by Grimek.
Sep 22, 1947 Steve Reeves arrived in NYC to see Wallace Downey
Sep 22, 1964 Eddie Robinson born in Akron, Ohio.
Sep 22, 2000 Logan Edward Rust born- son of fitness model Mary Yockey.
Sep 23, 1920 Mickey Rooney/ later married Beverly Jocher?
Sep 23, 1945 Mike Dubel won Mr. Michigan
Sep 23, 1953 John Franklin McWilliams III born
Sep 23, 1967 Stanislaus Zbyszko died at age 88; born Apr 1, 1880
Sep 23, 1967 Sergio Oliva won the third Mr. Olympia (his first of three wins), and Don Howorth won the Mr. America and Rick Wayne won the Mr. World- all in New York City, while over in England on this date Arnold won the amateur and Bill Pearl the pro NABBA Universe.
Sep 23, 1969 Angelique Beltier, model, born.
Sep 23, 1975 Jaime Bergman born in Salt Lake City, and became Playboy's 45th anniversary Playmate. More to the point here is that she co-stars with bodybuilder Roland Kickinger in the TV show Son of the Beach.
Sep 24, 1907 LeBreton two hands snatch 253.5 lbs
Sep 24, 1911 Ted Keppler born in Philadelphia.. Longtime fitness buff who introduced himself to the readers of S&H in Feb 1940 on page 48 when he was age 28 and recounted how lifting helped him overcome childhood ills. His letter explains that he weighed 148 and could press 165, snatch 155, and C&J 230. He had begun a barbell club in Beverly, New Jersey in 1938. Ted in 1956 wrote to Muscle Builder magazine, included a photo in the Jan issue on page 9.
Sep 24, 1935 Bob Harley showed up at Sig Klein's to get some training instruction. Bob was age 23, had been born in Springfield, MA, and later managed to lift the Cyr dumbell which was described when he lifted it as weighing, not the usual 202 lbs empty, but 203 lbs. That was Dec 19, 1936. Couple of months later on Feb 6, 1937, he lifted the 209 lb Rolandow dumbell. He stood 5'11" and weighed about 180 lbs. In Muscular Development May 1971 he is described as a pupil of Sig Klein- the fact that started this paragraph.
Sep 24, 1952 Dietrich Wortmann was buried.
Sep 24, 1957 Harry Barton Paschall died; born Nov 27, 1897. HBP as he was called, began writing for S&H in Sep 1934 when he profiled Dick Falcon, who would later become a physique photographer. As an aside, I was told that years ago, Falcon using a pair of scissors, cut up all his photographic negatives.
Back to HPB. He wrote for S&H every year except 1935, 1942, 1943, 1944. In 1945 he wrote again, to start his column BEHIND the SCENES which would run in 135 installments ending with the Jan 1958 issue.
His cartoon muscleman, BOSCO ran Jan 1954 thru Dec 1957 in 45 installments (HBP had died three months before the final strip ran).
Paschall also wrote for Ironman, Lifting News, The Chicago Bodybuilder, Vim, and in British Amateur Weightlifter and Bodybuilder he offered some BOSCO material in 1953-1954. Also wrote some for H&S in the early 1950s, I think, because it was announced that he was to do so, but I am missing some issues of H&S, so I cannot be sure.
His BOSCO was an innocent, no-nonsense character, hugely powerful, who fought several lifting battles, and is the type of cartoon strip that is missing in today's magazines, though it does appear that the genre may be returning. After HBP died, there was some minimal effort to keep the strip going, so Duke Schneider, and Tony Chikes, and Hector, each offered sample work, but Hoffman did not give the go-ahead.
Sep 24, 1971 April Hunter born in Philadelphia or 1973? Last I saw of her was on TV where she was being trained as a pro wrestler.
Sep 24, 1977 Bertil Fox won the NABBA Universe as did Tony Emmott
Sep 25, 1865 Dudley Allen Sargent took his exams to attend West Point, placed second, but did not attend.
Sep 25, 1896 Hans Beck barrel lifting
Sep 25, 1920 Goerner one arm to shoulder from a tilt of 385.75 lbs, and lifted the front end of a 3,042 lbs car and walked in a semi-circle. Does this claim strike anyone else as questionable?
Sep 25, 1962 Vickie Gates born
Sep 25, 1965 Reg Park and Elmo Santiago won NABBA Universe
Sep 25, 1968 Frank Zane defeated Arnold at the IFBB Mr. Universe in Miami Beach. I was in the audience at this show, and afterwards, the audience was invited to come up on stage and chat with the bodybuilders. So I did. This was two years before I began a systematic study of the iron game. Just having some fun.
Stood a few feet from Sergio Oliva, whose spaceship had apparently just landed from Planet Muscle-incredible shape. Tapped Chuck Sipes on the shoulder as he and Joe Weider, and Arnold Schwarzennger were getting ready to leave. Asked Chuck if Don Horworth had made the trip; was told no.
My impressions of the contest when Zane beat Arnold: Arnold was huge, but unimpressive. Zane had spent the day at the car wash getting his body detailed, but it was obvious that Arnold would soon own the sport if he chose to refine himself. He did so choose.
Don Peters later told me that he was among the group who drove to the airport to pick up Arnold the previous day when he had first set foot on out soil. I was unable to get more details from Don before he passed away.
Peters is gone, Sipes is gone, Howorth spent some time in prison, but is now out, Oliva is still a Chicago cop, and I have no clue whatever happened to ArnoldJ
Sep 26, 1871 Ivan Padoubbny born; died Aug 9, 1949
Sep 26, 1910 Emile Bruyere died; born Sep 14, 1860
Sep 26, 1916 Jack LaLanne born. Longtime fitness pioneer who remains in incredible shape at age 86. It was he, whose prototype 'Smith' machine Rudy Smith saw, then ordered a more luxurious model built which was named after him. The November issue of Flex will, I believe carry a photo which Rudy provided of him with his original Smith machine. To my knowledge this is the first time the photo has been published in a bodybuilding mag. Photo will appear in the Factoids column, and the issue should be available very soon.
Sep 26, 1949 John Grimek's second son, Stephen Eugene Grimek, born
Sep 26, 1957 Linda Hamilton born; appeared in The Terminator, and in Terminator II Judgment Day. Will not be in Terminator 3.
Sep 26, 1964 NABBA Universe winners Earl Maynard and John Hewlett
Sep 26, 1972 Joseph Curtis Hise died on this Tuesday; born Aug 10, 1905. A friend mentioned the other day that he would like to pay homage at the gravesite which is in Homer, Illinois in the G.A.R. Cemetery.
Sep 26, 1977 Slim Farman visited Joe Greenstein in the hospital. Joe had cancer.
Sep 26, 1993 Vince Taylor wed Randi Bradley in Ft. Lauderdale, Florida
Sep 26, 1998 Theresa Hessler, model, relocates from Baltimore to Los Angeles.
INCH 101: Part 18 H&S Sep 20, 1913 Some Reasons Why- in Plain Language- Inch
On Sep 26, 1871 Ivan Padoubny was born. Inch claimed to have left the Inch 172 lb bell at Hengler's Circus while Padoubny was wrestling there, which, as near as I can determine may have been 1908 because there was a wrestling tournament going on there then and Padoubny faced Apollon on Feb 10, 12, and 18th. Ivan defeated Apollon in a controversial match, and it is my studied view that Inch heard of this defeat and Apollon's angry withdrawal from the tournament, and brought the bell by Hengler's when Apollon was absent. This most certainly fits if Inch brought the bell by between Feb 12 and 18th (Apollon returning on the 18th) Padoubny was 36, Apollon age 46.
Inch certainly knew better than to give Apollon a chance, especially a challenge, in regard to the 172. Apollon had a famous block weight with a ring the total which weighed 176 lbs which he often used, so he would have scoffed at the 172. Inch avoided this. This scenario works if one of the three time tables presented is accepted. The bell was left at Hengler's for one day, one week, or two weeks. One day is likely because one week would have encompassed Apollon's return, and even though at age 46 he might not outwrestle Ivan, no one would assert Ivan's lifting was anywhere in the neighborhood of Apollon's.
When did Inch or other writers first refer to this Hengler's situation above? Miller mentioned it in Apr 1936 in Strength and Health, and three years later in that mag, Inch himself wrote of it. Then Inch again wrote of it in Health & strength on Dec 20, 1956.
When did Padoubny die: 1949. I have never found a response from Ivan about the Hengler's/Inch bell claim. Has anyone reading this seen any text from Ivan about the incident?
Roark Reference # 21:
Continuing the letter of Aug 31, 1985 from Charles A. Smith to Joe Roark:
[Roark note: I have edited some of the text, but no meaning has been thus altered. I have also decided to not edit out some of Charles language and views, which were reflective of his style and belief.
[Also, some names have been replaced by XXX but XXX stands for ANY replaced name and does not represent the same person always.]
That business of whoever it was asking you if you thought your efforts were ESOTERIC amused me more than somewhat. The way these guys heave words around without knowing what the real meaning of the word is. Just trying to be trendy I guess. How esoteric weightlifting can be is cause for several thousand grins. Weightlifting and anything to do with it is about as esoteric as a falling pile driver.
Please understand that I am not making excuses for dead old Joe. I know what he is, a cold, calculating icy blooded BUSINESS man, or to use its pejorative term, an entrepreneur- have I got that right- but there were dark sides to the York opposition to Joe- one of course was that Joe was becoming a BUSINESS threat, and the other -and so far as York was concerned, the worst- was that Joe was of the Jewish Faith. And they were- some of them at York, very anti negro and anti semites. In fact, I am told that XXX once called XXX - forgive me- a 'Jungle Bunny'- although in all fairness I can't say if this has any truth to it. It is just one of those things that is sometimes said about the famous.
My stance is that a man can be piebald, pinto, or polka dotted for all I care. If he treats me honestly and fairly, that's the way I'll treat him. If he does otherwise then that's the way I judge him. I never could blame a man for something over which he had no more control than I did- the accident of birth.
ANYONE you write to who knows me- Grimek or who ever, then say that I remember them, and I think kindly of them- why do else when I am coming to the end of the road- and would welcome hearing from them.
As for you taking me out to dinner, forget it. So if you don't mind, I'll lay in a plentiful supply of the 'Oh be joyful'- some unutterable ruffians refer to it as 'beer' and we'll send out for a PIZZA, if you will be able to stand the Texas version of this Italian by way of China delicacy.
I am also confined to a wheelchair, am TOTALLY unable to walk without the aid of a walker, and then only a very short distance, that I have my right leg amputated and a lot of my left hip missing.
I very much doubt if you will get a reply from Marvin [Eder]. I wrote him thrice and no reply Marvin and I were very friendly. I see no reason why he should blame me for the way good old Joe is ALLEGDED to have treated him. I have always liked Marvin. He was a good kid and easy to get along with, good-natured, and rarely said an adverse word about anyone. He isn't without his share of intelligence as his present position in the business world would indicate. By trade he is a plumber and has his own corporation with at least a dozen men working for him. I can't say either, that Weider did him dirt. What Marvin did in his relations with Joe was done of his own volition and with wide opened eyes. Joe did 'USE' him. That I know.
The people who used Marvin badly were the XXX crowd. They did all they could to get Marvin confirmed as a professional and DID. Then when they saw his potential as an Olympic lifter, tried to get him back into their fold What is so damned unfair about this is that what they were accusing Marvin of, they had been doing themselves all along- since the AAU rules at that time expressly forbid any amateur lifter to sell barbells or otherwise work for an organization that did.
And all this donkey dust about what XXX did for lifting. Well, to be fair, there is no denying that he did- HE DID- but it wasn't entirely altruistic What he put into lifting he got back TEN FOLD.
[Hepburn] The same goes for Hepburn. I was as close to him as paint is on a wall. But once I left good old Joe I never heard from him again. I did SO MUCH for him. In 1978, shortly after I retired, I wrote to him, having first contacted Peary Rader and asking for Doug's address. Peary's reply was a strange, but not unexpected one. He said that I could find it in ANY edition of Iron Man mag.
Some time- a good while- after, I got a strange reply from Doug. It consisted of a five inch square box enclosed in which was a 33 rpm record of Doug singing some songs- he had a very good voice- a poster sized poem about a dog and a letter of two lines which said that he hadn't forgotten me, that he now weighed 180, was a vegetarian, that we now traveled along different paths and that was that. I had to write to him twice before I got this reply, and in my second letter made it clear that all I wanted was to renew our friendship and correspond. I said silently to myself-and I make no apologies for the word I am about to use- 'Fuck him.' After all I had done for him and this was what I meant to him.
[Charles now writes of someone whom he helped get into wrestling]:
He wrote to me and asked me if I could get him into pro wrestling. I could and I did. I contacted Joe Malcewicz, the San Francisco promoter, who brought XXX there, showed him the pro wrestling ropes and put him on. XXX was finally heaved out by Joe because he didn't want to work, would fail to show up for bouts, etc etc. Then he went to Toronto and worked for the promoter there- Frank Tunney. At one time XXX was pulling in at least 800 to 900 a week REGULARLY. The first thing he did was blow it on a Cadillac with gold tinted wheels. Then the same thing that happened in San Francisco happened in Toronto so THEY kissed him off.
Then he got involved in very heavy drinking and drugs, and went further down the pan and was finally living the life of a bum in a hovel- that's the only word to describe it. So strong. So what. That best sums up XXX and his career which could have been so bright, and for a brief period was, and so influencing. Alas. Alas.
[regarding my newsletter MuscleSearch] So it is important that ALL have a knowledge of the history of our sport. To give you a good example, XXX who is putting out a fine little power mag XXX altered some of my material, to read CONTINENTAL CLEAN AND JERK. If he knew his lifting history he would have known there isn't such a lift and never was. It was ALWAYS CONTINENTAL AND JERK. But he is repeating the mistakes uttered by others- much in the same way that those who wrote biographies of Oscar Wilde repeated a lot of hogwash that had been written previously about him. And now the hogwash is accepted as FACT.
Warm personal regards to you and your, Chas.
Sep 10, 1985 letter to Joe Roark from Charles A. Smith: I don't know where XXX got his information about my being 'fired' by Weider, but it is sheer bullshit and I suspect he got it from one of the 'Old Timers' who attend those dinners. I think I have told you the story- or part of it- but when I told Joe to shove it, there were only four of us in the room- myself, Joe, Bart, and a layout man now dead, Norman Strain. Joe would never have fired me. He knew he had too valuable a property. He was getting vintage champagne for Pepsi Cola prices.
XXX was a gentleman and as I am using the word, in the BRITISH sense- look after your men and your horses before you look after yourself and all that old British Colonial hanky panky. What ruined XXX was his wife double crossing him, having an affair with a mounted cop and cleaning XXX out of three quarters of a million in COLD CASH. He never recovered from it. This from his own mouth to me. But he was also a RUTHLESS business man. On one occasion he found out that an employee was stealing cash that came in via the mail for his courses. At the time he had close to eighty men and women working for him JUST OPENING MAIL. He fired the whole bunch. Yes, you can say XXX was a close friend of mine and HATED XXX guts.
I have drunk the beer of every country you could mention. The absolute worst was a beer I drank in Ceylon. I took one sip and remarked, 'This horse is fit for work'. The best by far, and I do mean the best is AUSTRALIAN BEER. No other beer in the world touches it for flavor. Warmest regards to you and yours, Chas.
Note:
This column completes the � point in the basic chronology, which will be completed at year's end. I am open for suggestions on how to continue the column into 2003. At the moment, more lengthy pieces on the accomplishments of individuals are appealing, and these would be posted when ready, not on a set schedule.
Any helpful suggestions are welcome.

Posted by TheEditor @ 05:52 PM CST
Iron History Sep 6-19, 2002
Thursday, September 5, 2002
NEWS: Iron Game History from the U of Texas in Austin has published another issue. This is a very worthy publication, edited by two of the better writers in the field, Jan Todd and her husband Terry Todd. IGH, as it is known, began in Feb 1990, and this latest 70 page issue is dated Jul 2002, and is the 29th issue sent by messenger from Longhorn country.
The announced goal of IGH is quarterly publication, but that schedule has been met only in 1992 and 1994, the other years having fewer issues, though subscribers get the four issues even if publication is late. Though it is frustrating to some, including me, that the schedule seems less understandable than a drunken auctioneer in a wind tunnel, the issues are worth waiting for, packed with solid research, skilled writing, and an obvious passion for musty muscle days gone by. If interested, and frankly, I hope you are, please investigate by checking in with www.edb.utexas.edu/todd-mclean I wrote for IGH for many years, but have now turned attention to this web effort, but there is room, as well as need, for more than one source of info.
In this new IGH there is printed a letter from Randy Strossen regarding earlier articles published in IGH by yours truly, and by John Fair to which Randy voices objections. Other letters appear in support of the articles. Anyway, Randy offers, "Generally speaking, the world's most accomplished, respected lifters and Iron Game experts take the side of supporting Paul Anderson's lifts, and the few critics are generally people with much lesser credentials."
I know of no one in the know who questions Paul's official lifts. But regarding his unofficial lifts:
Couple of points: What respected, accomplished lifters have to offer about the subject is as worthy or worthless as what can be offered by respected non-lifters IF neither group has studied the matter, but has instead accepted the storyline so long presented. And, regarding those of lesser credentials, the following alphabetical list includes those who have expressed belief in John's research and in mine: David Chapman, Osmo Kiiha, and David Webster. I personally would not refer to that group as lesser credentialed. But in fairness to Randy, he may not have been aware that these men have come to their current conclusions. So, it is up to Randy to name those he considers lesser credentialed.
Randy mentions that I referred to Vidalia, Georgia, when I should have referred to Toccoa, Georgia. He is correct, even though I have often referred to the correct city many times, somehow I slipped this time and made a mistake. Randy then offers regarding me, "�and he never does regain his bearing. In the land of the blind, the one-eyed man is king." This is incorrect. If all my research is to be tossed aside because of this admitted glitch, then would Randy also be willing to toss aside all of Paul's claims regarding the backlift just because Paul also referred to the wrong city? You remember when Paul said his brother-in-law was in Toccoa taking pictures of the backlift? But his brother-in-law admits he was not in Toccoa that day (so he must have been in another city, or in the countryside), was not taking pictures, and did not even know about the backlift claim until 'much later'. So, Paul also misidentified a city, or at least a person in that city. So to be consistent in logic the point cannot apply only to me. But if it applies only to me, who then is turning a blind eye in my kingdom?
NEWS: " Muscle Museum Forum us a new magazine/newsletter for collectors of Iron Game memorabilia. Dedicated to the history of the Iron Sports and the preservation of its literature, equipment and other items of interest." Contact Mike BonDurant at keyfit@gate.net or call 727 442 7379."
NEWS: Chris James was kind enough to supply ironhistory.com with specific answers to the following questions I had asked:
My full name is Christopher Richard James and I was born on the 29th of July 1970, in Bridgend, South Wales. I started training in 1981, I am a severe asthmatic and I needed to build myself up. I do not consider myself a grip specialist. I've always trained for all round strength, have not got the time to specialize with 3 children!
My goals in strength are:
to lift over 300 with one arm over head to one hand clean over 300 to snatch the Thomas Inch dumbell to rep 600 pounds on the bench press to beat Goerner's one hand deadlift (the one with no hook grip)
I believe I will accomplish all of the above within the next 5 years. Also [want to] beat Kaz's dumbell pressing records and clean and push press the Apollon axle for reps. As to cleaning the Inch replica with either hand, not yet. [so far only his left hand]. I sustained a slight injury in my right hand whilst in a judo competition. Hence the reason I used my left hand.
I like bodybuilding up to 1960, after that too much drugs. Years ago there used to be a camaraderie amongst men of iron. I think steroids have killed this. I've never used a bench shirt and I think they look silly.
My best lifts include: (hand size is 8" x 4.25"): Clean and pressed 154 lb dumbbells for reps 505 for 8 reps in the bench press; 40 reps with 308 push pressed 308 for 20 reps curled 220 for reps ON A 2 INCH BAR [Emphasis by Roark] 260 kilos squat for 10 reps, no equipment used 505 lb straight leg deadlift for 20 reps 1100 pounds deadlift from knee height WITH a 2 INCH BAR [Emphasis by Roark] 1100 lbs deadlift from knee height for 3 reps using Olympic bar all knuckles forward I have done handstand press ups with an extra 88 lbs for reps whilst weighing 280 and can also do chins for reps with an extra 200 lbs.
I have done 165 on reverse curl about the third time I tried it.
Never tried the Rolling Thunder.
Current bodyweight about 250 and I am 6 feet 1 inch tall. My wrist measures 8.5 inches and my forearm is 15 inches straight.
Well, sorry Chris, but if all you can deadlift from knee high is 1,100 lbs on a 2" BAR, for your own sake, avoid any competition I enter! Thanks for the info Chris, and ladies and gentlemen, we have here an amazingly strong man. Stay tuned.
EMAIL: from Mark Kodya:
"It seems as if you may be doubting some of the lifts claimed for Hermann Goerner, judging from the recent posts of Iron History and the Grippage. I have recently come across a book titled the Encyclopedia of Sports Games and Pastimes, which appears to have been published around 1934, judging from other information it contains. The copy I have access to does not have a date of publication. At any rate, the section on weightlifting states, 'the greatest weight ever lifted with two hands was recorded by the German, H. Gorner, who lifted 652-1/4 lb. in 1927. That is a word for word exact quote from a fairly contemporaneous source and certainly does call Mueller's claims into question."
[ to refresh: other sources say Goerner deadlifted 793.75 lbs on Oct 29, 1920, which is, of course, 141.50 lbs more than mentioned above.]
Anyone else have any early references from other sources, to share? Thanks, Mark.
RED PENCIL HISTORY: Thanks for the typo corrections to Tom Ryan and Jan Dellinger- corrections have been made in the Aug 16 version of ironhistory.com
How RED PENCIL comments are selected: If I make an error, whether it is a typo where I spell Goerge instead of George, or get a date wrong, or whatever, I want it to be corrected. If someone else makes a mistake, it should also be corrected. Usually, RED PENCIL is concerned with only the articles that I read regarding the history of the sport because I don't have any knowledge about which of the google of creatines is the best, nor does my experience with training routines enable me to comment much on that aspect. But in history, there is a filing system and database elsewhere within this keyboard's reach which can be summoned for corrections.
So, to any author whose work is corrected, please do not take it personally- I don't when others correct me. Allowing ego to replace accuracy is not a solid goal. In this regard, usually the author's name will not be mentioned, just the source of the error. And may I suggest that you literally take a red ink pen and make a correction in the magazine text (if you plan to keep the magazine). Or, print this correction and tuck it between the appropriate pages.
Finally, it is usually assumed, or thought, that going to the source person about his own contests is the most reliable tracking device for facts. Not at all.
RED PENCIL: Oct 2002 Ironman in a story on Bill Grant mentions that he won the WBBG Mr. America in 1971- actually he was second to Pete Caputo. Bill did win the WBBG Pro Mr. America on Sep 9, 1972.
Also, it is mentioned that prior to his 1994 Masters Olympia competition his previous competition was the 1987 Night of Champions. He was not in that contest. He did place 13th in the 1988 Night of Champions, but that would not have been his 'most recent' to the 1994 Masters Olympia, because after the May 21, 1988 NOC, he again placed 13th at the Aug 20, 1988 Chicago Pro.
Grant remembers that Mike Katz competed in the Masters Olympia- an event Katz has never entered. He also remembers 'the emcee was smooth as silk'- there were two, Jerry Kindela and Larry Scott. I know because I was hired to supply the contest info and contestant info for their chatter.
RED PENCIL: MuscleMag Nov 2002 ran a feature on George Eiferman and mentioned that on Apr 10, 1948 he won the Mr. Pacific Coast contest. George never entered the Mr. Pacific Coast contest. On the date mentioned he won the Mr. California. The 1948 Mr. Pacific Coast was held on Jun 19 and was won by Bill Melby. Reeves won in 1947, Hilligenn in 1949. The piece also says that George won the Mr. Universe at age 36, which is correct, but the age of 23 for winning the Mr. America is incorrect; should be 22.
While mentioning one woman as the mother of one of George's son- a story that is also told elsewhere in the opposite result- no mention is made of Bonita, George's second wife, who is the lady who cared for him in his latter years, and indeed the major female figure in his life. I visited her and George and KNOW what a role she played in his well being. Usually I stay with facts/stats, but this needs to be mentioned! Also George was married to Tobi, not Toby.
RED PENCIL EDITORIAL NOTE. To those writers who feel a need to write about history in our field, please, lie down until the feeling goes away, UNLESS, you have a way of accurately checking the dates and titles and other circumstances you are presenting. To simply convey info unchecked is a disservice, and those who do not have access to the facts will assume that the info is correct and will therefore use your writing as a reference tool when researching the subject of your article. Thank you and have a good nap.
DISCOVERY: In old boxes in the garage, I discovered some correspondence from the mid to late 1980s that I had forgotten about. A few months ago, my wife decided that our house should no longer resemble a warehouse, so she 'asked' me (if you smell what the Roark is cooking) to move hundreds of pounds of magazines, books, and letters to the garage. Not liking to cook, but thoroughly enjoying the end-product of cooking, and losing the arm wrestling match with her that was to decide the issue, those things got shifted.
By chance today (Aug 20) I found these letters, and want to share part of one with you.
"Dear Mr. Roark:
"Thank you for your letter of October 13, 1985.
"Yes- I knew Hermann Goerner quite well. The book about him was written by me from notes supplied by Edgar Mueller. It was published with Mueller as the author as I wanted to give him some publicity at that time (1951). He was a refugee from Eastern Germany (Leipzig) and was living then in poor circumstances in Braunschweig in West Germany.
"Interesting personal stories about Goerner? One or two come to mind and you are free to use them in your newsletter if you think they would be of interest. Hermann possessed a keen sense of humour and displayed this in many ways. He told me that on one occasion he uprooted the sections of iron [hand] railings in a local park which divided certain sections of it- he apparently did this late one evening, so that when the part officials opened the park the following day, all railings were uprooted and lying on the ground. The sheer strength to pull up these sections and deposit them on the ground has to be imagined. I feel that few of today's lifters could duplicate this feat.
"He also related that on one occasion � an occasion I might add that he later regretted- he and his brother (Otto) completely wrecked the barroom of a small hotel. I cannot now recall what affront had been offered to Hermann and his brother, but he told me that the owner of the hotel took no action against the two men who did this damage.
"Yes � I knew Luigi Borra- and his daughter (She was a professional athlete). He ran a hotel (Under his name L.B.Brinn) known as The Who'd a Thot It, at Nine Mile Ride, Wokingham, West Sussex, England. Borra was a charming man, but I really do not recall any particular story about him.
"Regarding the Berg-Hantel. I did possess a catalogue of this firm which gave the history of the firm manufacturing these barbells, but I regret I no longer have this. If you write to Karpar Berg, Spezialfabrik fuer Sportgeraete aller Art, NUERNBERG, Federal Republic of Germany, I would think they would be happy to forward you the information you require. I very much doubt if S&H magazine ever carried anything definitive on the Berg-Hantel- as the York bar was based on the former after Henry Steinborn displayed the Berg bar he had 'way back when.
"I wish you luck in your endeavours, but must explain that these days my interests lie in fields other than those of the world of weights. You, will, however, always get a reply from me.
"Best wishes, sincerely, "John E. Dawe"
Sep 6, 1946 James Wright born. Jim is now Senior Science Editor at Flex.
Sep 6, 1980 Gary Leonard won AAU Mr. America in Santa Monica, CA.
Sep 6, 1987 Lee Haney's son Joshua Lee Haney born, 6.5 lbs, 20". Look out Lee, next year he'll be driving!
Sep 7, 1914 W.J. Lowry joined Her Majesty's Forces. He was about age 19, and his articles on the history of our sport began appearing in The British Amateur Weightlifter and Bodybuilder in Jan 1947 in a 51 part series of wonderful facts, dates, and profiles. This was years after he had been writing for Health & Strength- the earliest I have on file for him in H&S is May 21, 1932, but I am missing many magazines before this so he may have written before this.
Sep 7, 1946 Howard Brodsky won the Mr. Wisconsin. Your Physique ran a photo and profile of Howard in the Mar 1947 issue.
Sep 7, 1974 Boyer Coe won the WBBG Mr. World for the fourth consecutive year. He would also win in 1975. Boyer began in the AAU in the early 1960s, in 1969 added the NABBA Universe amateur crown, then the next year the NABBA Pro Universe title, then in 1971 began competing in the WBBG. His first foray into the IFBB was the 1976 Mr. Olympia where he placed 3rd in the light class. After he joined the IFBB he never competed in another organization, and in fact entered a total of 38 IFBB shows, culminating with the 1995 Masters Olympia with a placing of 10th.
Sep 7, 1983 Victor Konolavov's accident which caused paralysis at age 21.
Sep 7, 1987 Erika Mes was suspended from the IFBB for one year for posing nude in the Sep issue of Playboy (in Belgium). Though her pictorial by current standards was not graphic, she was punished in a way that current female competitors need not worry about. In much more graphic displays, more frequently offered, certain competitors are apparently free from such sanctions these days.
Sep 8, 1907 Steinbach right hand snatch 188.49 lbs
Sep 8, 1909 John Edward Dawe born. (see his letter to me above). He married Eva Kuehne on May 2, 1953 in Muenchen, Germany. The ceremony was also conducted in the German language. Here is an excerpt of a letter Mr. Dawe wrote to me Nov 14, 1985:
"I will endeavour to deal with the questions you raise regarding a brief iron-game related bio. This will have to be very brief. I was active from around 1934 to 1940 when the Second WW intervened. I did some lifting in India in the 1940s but this was in the nature of training only- no competition. Later, in Germany I took part in competition and lifted up to 1953. Later still, in Canada, I trained but mostly officiated at local lifting meets. I have been a member of the BAWLA since 1935 and a Life Member since 1952. I am a Fully Qualified Referee but have not acted as an International Ref. I was born on 8.09.09 [Sep 8, 1909 using British system] in London, England and have been a Canadian citizen since 1958. At different times I have been a member of the Camberwell Weightlifting Club, the Connaught Weightlifting Club in Chatham, Kent, and a member of the 1st West Central Club, in London. In addition I have been a member of the VFK (Verein Fuer Korperkultur) a German Club in Hannover, Germany. For some years I was a member of the DAB (Deutscher Athleten Bund). I have been successful both in competition and establishing records- mostly local when in England. I regret I have no notes of dates or poundages lifted or the lifts performed- but they were both barbell and dumb-bell lifts.
"I have never met Charles Vansittart. Nor grasped the wheels of Apollon or the Inch dumb-bell. I have written in the past for the magazine Vigour, Iron Man, and Athletik. The latter is a German magazine published in Karlsruhe (At least it used to be some years ago). I have always written under my own name. I am married but we have no family." Sincerely, John E. Dawe
Letter of Dec 12, 1985 to Joe Roark from John E. Dawe: excerpts in context: "Thank you for the copy of your latest newsletter- it came today with your note. I found the letter most interesting and it should be of great use to younger students of the Iron Game- there is so much rubbish written on the subject of measurements and your letter should go a long way to help dispel some of this. The exaggeration applies to height too- I had a friend some years ago and he was 6'01/2" but he was away above many chaps who claimed to be over- well over- 6'0"! Hermann Goerner was the same height as my old school friend and he seemed to be HUGE when one met him- it was his width and depth that added to the impression one got when meeting him. Back in those days I stood a bit over 5'8" and 185 lbs- but I felt a shrimp when standing next to him.
"Keep up the good work of debunking some of the many myths that have grown up with the passing of the years relating to the Iron Game.
"The compliments of the season from Ottawa to you and yours. "Sincerely, John E. Dawe."
Dawe donated more than 6,000 magazines to:
Sports Information Research Centre 1600 James Naismith Drive GLOUCESTER, Ontario Canada K1B 5N4 (this address from a letter of Apr 17, 1989) If anyone in that neighborhood checks it out, please let us know if his magazines are still being periodically (pun) displayed.
Sep 8, 1973 Arnold wins the Mr. Olympia; Ken Waller wins Mr. World; Lou Ferrigno wins Mr. America
Sep 8, 1979 Ray Mentzer wins the AAU Mr. America. His brother Mike never won the AAU America, his single entry in 1971 landing him in 10th.
Sep 8, 1995 Sonny Schmidt wins the second Masters Olympia, in Atlanta.
Sep 9, 1900 George Lurich record belly toss 443 lbs
Sep 9, 1927 Joe Greenstein, aka, The Mighty Atom, began his career in Vaudeville
Sep 9, 1959 Mohammed Benaziza born; died Oct 4, 1992 the morning after he had won the IFBB Grand Prix in DaHaag, Holland.
Sep 9, 1965 Shawn Ray born. His total of 13 appearances in the Mr. Olympia ties that of Al Beckles. Shawn had announced that he would skip the Olympia this year because of broadcast booth duties, but word is that he may not be in the booth. Or on the stage?
Sep 9, 1989 Lee Haney wins the silver anniversary Mr. Olympia
Sep 9, 1994 Inaugural Masters Olympia won by Robby Robinson
Sep 9, 1995 Dorian Yates wins the 31st edition of Mr. Olympia
Sep 10, 1891 Selig Whitman pushed 3 separate railroad cars up a grade for 30 feet. The degree of grade, a most important factor is not mentioned. By the way, Whitman's nickname was Ajax. There were three men in the field named Ajax: One was a wrestler from Greece, one a man named W. Pitcher whose book Strength For All, Through Physical Culture, is mentioned in the Apr 1905 issue of Vitality and Health Culture magazine p 287.
Whitman received his nickname on Nov 12, 1891 from Richard K. Fox (two months after the railroad car pushing incident which began this topic). I have his birth date as 1865, and have no death date for him. So can anyone help?
Sep 10, 1940 Curt Haywood born. Lifting News mag mentioned him in Nov 1967 regarding his participation in a lifting contest on Apr 2, 1967, as well as a Mr. Miami Valley contest in which he placed second to Larry Pacifico (yes, the power lifter). Six months later Curt won the Mr. Western Pennsylvania. With his wife Sharon, he appeared on the cover of Strength & Health in Oct 1968, Dec 1969; on Muscular Development in Sep 1972, and on Ironman's rear cover Jul 1970. By himself he appeared on Ironman's Nov 1972 issue.
Sep 11, 1932 Goerner rectangular fix with barbell 154.25 lbs. For a technical description of this lift please see the BAWLA rules section in Iron History Extras. Simply, this is a reverse curl that is halted and held still when the forearms are parallel to the floor.
Sep 11, 1944 Steve Reeves joined the army, age 18.
Sep 11, 1983 Tony Pearson wins the IFBB Colorado Grand Prix
Sep 12, 1851 Karl Abs born; died Feb 18, 1895 or born Sep 17?
Sep 12, 1876 Dr. George Barker Windship died; born Jan 3, 1834 This name was spelled without the'd' for years and before Iron Game History found the correct spelling.
Sep 12, 1896 Max Dauthage squatted 50 reps with 220.5 lbs
Sep 12, 1907 Steinback jerked from the shoulder for seven reps, 347.22 lbs
Sep 13, 1907 Maspoli one hand snatch 207.25
Sep 13, 1940 Bob Gajda born. Won AAU Mr. America Jun 19, 1966. Was an early training partner of Sergio Oliva, and developed the PHA system of training.
Sep 13, 1940 West coast perfect man contest was announced for this date, though I have found no results from it. Anybody help?
Sep 13, 1949 John Davis cleaned and jerked the Apollon railcar wheels on the fourth try. He had weighed about 225.5 lbs the week before at the World Weightlifting championships. See the Iron History Extra for a detailed story on the history of the wheels.
Sep 13, 1969 Osmo Kiiha wed Rae Willes. Spoke to Osmo on the phone this week, and he is not planning to republish either the issues of his classic The Iron Master, or to publish work on new research until he has more time- perhaps five years from now when he nears retirement. The Iron Master was published from Mar 1989 thru Apr 2000, with 29 issues composing a complete collection. It began modestly at four pages, but by 1995 most issues approached 60 pages. Osmo's attention to detail is wonderful! Having published my own newsletter for a few years- amid the distractions of full time work- Osmo's decision to abandon the cause is understandable. Whereas some of the mainstream muscle magazines are profitable, newsletters are not, so eventually, compliments and kudos (which he deservedly received) are not sufficient to replace a paycheck or the time sacrificed.
Plus, Osmo found, as did I, that the practice of complimentary copies negated any profit. In my case, one recipient of such a complimentary copy said MuscleSearch was among the best efforts in the field. When I told this person that in order to at least try to break even, I would have to stop mailing complimentary copies, I never again heard from him. I love sincerity�
Also, it gives me satisfaction that Osmo now agrees with my conclusions regarding Paul Anderson's backlift of Jun 12, 1957. Also agreeing is David Webster, according to the new issue of Iron Game History. Also Greg Ernst, who has performed a documented backlift of 5,340 pounds after nearly two decades of training on the lift. Frankly, it would not bother me if all these men disagreed with my conclusions, because I would still have the research for my belief. Nonetheless, it is refreshing not to have to battle against the giants.
See Roark Reference #19 (below) for a listing of The Iron Master issues.
Sep 13, 1969 Sergio Oliva wins Mr. Olympia, John Decola Mr. America, and Arnold the Mr. Universe in NYC
Sep 14, 1860 Emile Bruyere born; died Sep 26, 1910 stage name, Limousin
Sep 14, 1964 Harold Poole wins Mr. Universe, and Reg Lewis won Mr. America
Sep 15, 1919 Sig Klein got his first barbell
Sep 15, 1924 Sig Klein met Grace Attila, his future wife.
Sep 15, 1962 Larry Scott wins Mr. America, and George Eiferman wins Mr. Universe
Sep 16, 1926 Doug Hepburn born; died Nov 22, 2000
Sep 16, 1983 Arnold Schwarzenegger became an American citizen
Sep 17, 1896 Patrick J. McCarthy backlift claimed 6,373 lbs. This was not in Vidalia or in Toccoa, Georgia.
Sep 17, 1917 Joe Lauriano born
Sep 17, 1960 Henry Downs won Mr. Universe
Sep 17, 1966 Larry Scott wins his second Mr. Olympia title
Sep 17, 1978 Robert B. Snyder died; born Feb 16, 1897
Sep 18, 1928 David Pirie Webster born. David is the dean of the world's living strength historians and a man who has met and known hundreds of famous strongmen. His several books on strongmen are needed to complete any library which hopes to be described as 'complete'. He has more books in the works including one on the golden age of strongmen- but more of this later when the publication nears.
Sep 19, 1905 Tony Sansone born; died Jan 13, 1987
Sep 19, 1905 Steinbach jerked two dumbbells total of 335.10 lbs
INCH 101: part 17
Sep 11, 1957 in H&S Physical Culture Plus- by Inch
Sep 11, 1958 in H&S some paragraphs about Inch by Pullum
Sep 12, 1908 in one of his ads, Inch offered disc barbells for FREE
Sep 13, 1913 notice that he plans to move back to his childhood home, Scarborough
Sep 13, 1930 Where There's Pluck, There's 'Luck'- by Inch
Roark Reference #19: The Iron Master by Osmo Kiiha:
1 Mar 1989 general info
2 Apr 1989 general info
3 Apr 1990 general info
4 Sep 1990 Norbert Schmansky
5 Dec 1990 Tommy Kono
6 Apr 1991 The George brothers
7 Jan 1992 Doug Hepburn and Paul Anderson
8 Jun 1992 Isaac Berger, Chuck Vinci
9 Oct 1992 Norbert Schemansky
10 Jan 1993 Joe Puleo
11 Apr 1993 John Davis
12 Aug 1993 Mike Karchut
13 Dec 1993 Marvin Eder
14 Apr 1994 Dave Sheppard
15 Sep 1994 Arthur Saxon, and, Apollon
16. Jan 1995 Stanley Stanczyk
17 May 1995 Roy Hilligenn
18 Sep 1995 Tony Terlazzo
19 Jan 1996 Roland Essmaker
20 May 1996 Larry Barnholth
21 Sep 1996 Frank Spellman
22 Feb 1997 Reg Park
23 Aug 1997 Stanless Steel Pleskun
24 Dec 1997 Ron Lacy
25 Apr 1998 Gary Cleveland
26 Sep 1998 The Arthur Saxon Trio
27 May 1999 Jim Park
28 Dec 1999 Ken Patera
29 Apr 2000 Maxick
ceased publication.
Roark Reference #20:
We continue with letters Charles A. Smith wrote to me, which I have edited, but nothing is out of context.
We continue with letters Charles A. Smith wrote to me, which I have edited, but nothing is out of context.
Aug 22, 1985 Letter from Charles A. Smith to Joe Roark
Enclosed is the address of Marvin Eder and two items which are of historic import. One is a letter from the father of Doug Hepburn to Doug in which I am mentioned. The other is a testimonial from Doug to me. So these should set the record straight if and whenever any question arises as to who was responsible for Doug winning the world title
Aug 24, 1985 Letter from Charles A. Smith to Joe Roark
First let me deal with Wally McManus. The assertion that he used pen names. I don't know that he did. He, in the case of Muscle Power, Your Physique and Muscle Builder ALWAYS USED HIS OWN NAME. The only time he did otherwise was when he wrote an article bearing the name of Abe Goldberg.
He was a very good writer. HE NEVER TOUCHED A WEIGHT IN HIS LIFE.
But he always treated me with affection respect and was very fond of my wife and most upset when she died.
Getting back to Arco, he and his brother Pete once worked under the stage name of The Croton Brothers. Otto gave his brother as little money as possible. Pete was an alcoholic and spent all his wages on booze. Arco was one of the nicest men I have ever met. Very friendly and helpful. A damn good lifter and a pretty good wrestler also.
[regarding my former newsletter] It is limited to REAL enthusiasts. I also think you will have to select your theme VERY carefully. As you remark, today's weight users are not interested in the old timers, and that is why, in the words of George Santayana, they are condemned to repeat not its virtues but its vices.
As to Sandow, I have gone no further in my sleuthing. All I can get out of my 'confidential informant' is that he has medical evidence, and other stuff that, even at this 'time distance' after Sandow's death, would lead to legal repercussions. I do know that Sandow was an arrogant sod , 'big headed' as we would say in British parlance�He had the habit of breaking up an ashtray into little pieces and handing them out to other patrons of the restaurant as 'souvenirs'. He also had the endearing habit of taking a spoon and rolling up the handle into the bowl of the spoon. He also liked to grab hold of the steps of ladder back chairs and tear them out. All these shenanigans endeared him to caf� owners. In other words he was a typical arrogant Prussian bastard. He also seemed to be a bit paranoid. Liederman reported and also TOLD ME PERSONALLY that when he went to visit Sandow in - was it 1922 or 23- over a proposed business venture, he was kept waiting for some time. Suddenly he smelled the odor of cigar smoke, although he was in an empty room. He chanced to look around and saw a small hole in the wall with someone watching him. When he was taken into Sandow's office, there was jolly old Eugene(sic) smoking a big cigar. What it all amounts to is that Sandow, like the rest of humanity was a Jekyll and Hyde character with a good side and a bad- mostly bad in his case, since I have heard other stories about him.
When you read Hoffman's remarks about Dan Parker, you didn't get the truth and nothing but. What you got was quotes out of context and when that is done, black is white and night is day.
What Dan was hollering about- and as sports writers go he had the greatest amount of integrity of any of them, since sports writers are human and love a few free Simoleons as well as the next guy- was that Hoffman kept butting into the judging discussions when he wasn't even a member of the panel, trying to influence not only Parker but General Fitzpatrick and the latter wouldn't have any part of it. And of course came down on Hoffman like the proverbial ton of bricks. And good old Bob showed his common sense by chatting back, and we were taught in journalism school that there were three things you never got into a fight with- the Pope, a woman, and a newspaper. The big guns and battalions were ALL on their side. There wasn't- to my limited knowledge- a SINGLE MR. A contest that Boob (sic) didn't try to influence to HIS advantage. And of course, looking at it cold bloodedly, he would have been a business ninny- old time for nerd- if he hadn't.
One can dream one's dreams of all things being perfect in a perfect world, but then comes the reckoning and one HAS TO face reality.
You are perfectly welcome to stay with me to avoid hotel bills. But in all fairness I have to tell you that I can't get around since I am unable to walk so although you will be more than welcome, I don't want to limit your movements�If you drink that horrible stuff known as beer, I'll see a plentiful supply is laid in. I myself do have the courage to drink it, although I have to force myself to drink three cans a day. We have most of the usual brands here so if you do drink this nasty stuff- yum, yum- you'll be supplied. By the way, I DON'T smoke. Don't like it. Only had one cigarette in my life and that was when I helped the ship's surgeon cut off a man's leg. The cigarette made me throw up. Well, we digressed. We have really no need to go anywhere and can spend our time with you picking my brains.
I know I told you over the phone that I had a nice two page letter from Terpak. But I also have a remote idea that I might have told you in another of my letters. However, he was very friendly, said that he, Mike Dietz, and Alda Ketterman were executors of Hoffman's estate, that this entailed 18 farms as well as other real property and he wasn't relishing his forthcoming battle with the INFERNAL REVENUE SERVICE.- my words. He also said he made frequent trips to Texas- I hope he realizes the huge area it encompasses- and would not only phone me but VISIT ME.
I have heard from other sources that S&H is to fold and MD brought out on a monthly basis. I see a tremendous chance here for them�I have many suggestions to make to Terpak on this, such as revamping the layout of the mag, but won't put it to paper, preferring to give it to him first hand. Ideas are worth dough, you know.
[regarding a paycheck he was awaiting] If and when it does [arrive] I shall send up rockets, let off fireworks , run up flags, turn a double somersault and disappear up my own fundament and then go into a Trappist Monastery where I shall forswear meat, women, and beer for one hour.
Incidentally you should take several ganders at SHAPE. It is fast developing into the best of Joe's mags. His editor is very very good
OK. Now this is the GOSPEL. Hack HIMSELF, and to be guilty of a lesser tautology, personally told me that 'I wasn't a good wrestler. I couldn't wrestle so well, but I was so strong and fast that I could beat GOOD wrestlers.'
[regarding wrestling] Now pro wrestling is as crooked as a dog's hind leg. It always was and always will be. Let no one tell you otherwise. The difference between then and now is that THEN, in the old days, it was MORE BELIEVEABLE. Now it caters to morons who wouldn't know their gonads from hand grenades, and I suspect that the twenty thousand or so audiences that it now attracts are made up entirely of drama students who want to polish the implements of their craft by watching real professionals.
Dear old XXXX was one of the smartest wrestlers, brain power wise, that ever tucked on wrestling tights. He was like Bert Assirati. He could stand any amount of pain or discomfort, and in fact, like Bert, would often tell a training partner to 'try to really hurt me'. He was also completely venal and mercenary and would have sold his sister for a slice of salami.
Bert Assirati told me that when he went to India in the late 1950s he met up with a lot of the Hindu greats and went on the mat with them. He was astonished, he told me, that within less than two minutes, they had sized him up and had gone behind him and taken him down so fast he couldn't believe what had been done. In the spirit of international relations, they most kindly repeated the performance for him.
I had to take off a minute. Some lousy, rotten, misbegotten, jungle bred sod called me from England and said he was going to the Local Legion Hall and drink a couple of pints, and me in 104 degree heat and not a beer in the house. HELP.
Hope you are bloody well satisfied. More later. Warmest regards to you and yours.
Chas
Aug 31, 1985 Letter from Charles A. Smith to Joe Roark
I had a nice letter from Fred Howell, and replied at once. However I gave him some misinformation in it. I said I had been writing to Hise since 1932. This is wrong. It was 1935. 1932 is fixed in my head as the year I SHOULD have been with the British Olympic swimming team in L.A. but wasn't, due to an ear infection. I might well have been the first Olympic winner to have weight trained- swimmer that is.
Beware of XXX . He is of the same kidney as good old XXX. But whereas XXX uses a rapier, it is XXXstyle to use a bludgeon, not because of a more sadistic nature, but purely from a lack of sophistication. He just hasn't the 'finesse'- if that is the word- that dear old XXX has.
The only ones I know that you mentioned were Lurie and Minichielo or however you spell the bloody word. Glad the Hepburn material arrived safely. If it hadn't been for me Doug would never have been. I taught him how to lift- his style was horrible- and persuaded Joe, after a persuading session that left me with my tongue hanging out and completely dehydrated- to bring Doug to New Jersey or NYC. Joe, in even those days, hated parting with a buck unless he saw the immediate profit lying before him immediately.
I am sure that XXX will use you if and when he can and how he can for HIS advantage, so it might be well for you to make it clear on ALL your bulletins that they are copyrighted and any reproduction without your permission will result in legal action against those who do use them without WRITTEN PERMISSION. XXX has done this on SEVERAL OCCASIONS, as, for instance in taking an article of a friend of mine out of one magazine and using it in HIS. He also has the reputation- and note I said reputation- as accepting articles, hanging onto them and then after many many moons publishing them in the hopes that the author has forgotten all about his magnum opus and thereby payment. So watch the son of a bitch. He'll do you as XXX will if given the chance.
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