Iron History with Joe Roark

Joe Roark's IronHistoryArchives.com

The HUGE library of Iron History compiled by Joe Roark.

Welcome to Iron History with Joe Roark!

Joe Roark has been studying the iron game since 1957, and by 1970 began a systematic gathering of information on index cards. By the time his first computer was acquired, there were several hundred thousand references to be typed into it.
For a few years he published his own newsletter called MuscleSearch: The Roark Report. By 1992 he was appointed as the IFBB Men's Bodybuilding Historian, and began writing about history for FLEX in his column Factoids. For ten years he contributed to Iron Game History from the U of Texas at Austin. Recently he also began writing All Our Yesterdays for FLEX.
His passion has always been the period between 1880 and 1920, with particular emphasis on the oldtime strongmen of that era. Joe will be offering bits of history for Cyberpump once per week, and the text will be relevant to the dates of the calendar for those events of yesteryear relevant to the coming week.
In this column, readers will also be able to ask Joe questions or comment on his posts. Note: The comments are solely for interaction between Joe and the readers only -- not reader to reader.

8/1/2008: A letter to Joe from Charles A. Smith dated August 22, 1987
Thursday, July 31, 2008
Letter from Charles A. Smith to Joe Roark dated Aug 22, 1987
[Roark note: please keep in mind that the following is from Chas� perspective and that the other people involved have their, perhaps differing, perspectives]
Dear Joe,
Thank you for yours post dated August 15th and received by me three days later.
Did I tell you I had a call from Bill Hinbern. We spoke for at least 45 minutes. I was so busy wagging my chin that I forgot he was calling from so far away.
That date would be about right for my first article re Weider. At the time I was living at 3 West 103rd Street right by Central Park and he had somehow or other contacted me, after meeting me in company with Leo Gaudreau at Columbus circle. I recall there were loads of shots with the article�or at least there should have been since he handed me a whole batch of snaps to shove captions on. But, I think there was an earlier article�one he had lifted in toto from an Iron Man without my consent or even asking Rader. I hopped on him for this and received a check for ten bucks and a note asking me if I wouldn�t contribute on a regular basis. I remember mentioning this to some of the York crowd and receiving a stern warning about Joseph and to make sure I got paid promptly since he was, according to Messers Terpak et al, in the habit of forgetting to send a check.
As for what the Reverend told you in Chicago, he told the truth but only part of it. He failed to mention that when I called him saying I had been sleeping poorly and was in a bad temper as a result, and felt I couldn�t do my best at work, he snarled �As you like it,� then hung up on me as I was trying to explain further. This coupled with his connivings re the Eder article, plus the fact that I had discovered he had made what my informant said was a �very generous offer� to come over and work at the Collection, pissed me off more than somewhat, since I had been working there for years without pay. And he knew my financial circumstances and also that a few bucks more a month would have helped me.
So, NO, I won�t go back. Put your finger in the fire and burn it, is experience. Do it a second time and that�s stupidity. And I always felt I was being patronized, that I really wasn�t one of the team, but just a go-fer. His actions in the Eder article wre chicken shit. He deliberately LIED to me and more than once. He went behind my back, without my permission and consent. I have since found out thathe told Eder I was writing the article and he was trying to help me. Yet he contacts Balik�to demand that info he had obtained from Eder when he took him to lunch- and none of this told to me- be included in my article. The Reverend said nothing to me of this, nothing of having interviewed Eder, nothing of having phoned Balik re inclusion of more material in MY article. So I felt he was not to be trusted- he had always said he was my friend�and to quote some unknown, with a friend like this, who needs an enemy.
I was somewhat surprised at Joe Hood�s losing. He was so confident of winning. He came over to see me four or five days before he left for Chicago and seemed in good spirits. I had heard his suit blew during his squat. But what surprised me was the polygraph test and it being border line insofar as Joe was concerned. To the best of my knowledge and belief, Joe has never used steroids but I did think it most remarkable that he had put on so much weight and since he never had gone over 415 before I said �Hmm� to myself and wondered.
I have always liked Joe. He has seemed to me a forthright and simple guy meaning �uncomplicated,� and I would find it most difficult to believe he had resorted to steroids.
Why they use the polygraph I don�t know since it isn�t reliable and the results obtained from it are, in most courts in the U.S., inadmissible as evidence. It CAN be beaten and it Can give false readings- a hard night out on the town the day before you take the test, a poor night�s sleep, a rough argument with the wife or mother-in-law can do the trick.
I am also wondering how long it is gonna take the Drug Free Power people to get around to banning such things as suits- guaranteed �to put thirty to fifty pounds on one�s squat, tops�- guaranteed to put twenty to thirty pounds on your bench. It would seem to me that use of these devices is just as unfair as using steroids. After all, the purpose of conducting a lifting contest is to find out who is the strongest, and if devices such as tops, suits, wrappings etc etc are allowed to be used, then we don�t determine who is the strongest in any contest, but who uses the best drugs and the best equipment as auxiliarys. It makes one think that if these devices are allowable, then why not blocks and tackles or helping hands from loaders when the bench becomes slow at the so called sticking point.
I KNOW Weider never had a middle initial. One can only think that someone thought he had and used it and either Joe never noticed it or never cared.
There are many sides to the Hoffic-Wunderboy feud and not all of them have been told. But at the bottom of it all is Hoffie�s monumental vanity and the Wunderboy�s flair for snake oil salesmanship, PLUS the fact that he was treading most heavily on Hoffie�s turf, or what Hoffie thought was his exclusive turf. Hoffie would tolerate no opposition. He HAD to be top bull in the pasture, and what a lush pasture it has turned out to be.
No, I am not waiting for the Reverend to call me. I know where the phone is and know how to use the phone, and I feel not the slightest desire to whirl the dial.
Write soon and the best to you and yours,
Chas

Posted by TheEditor @ 09:59 PM CST
8/1/2008: A letter to Joe from Charles A. Smith dated August 22, 1987
Thursday, July 31, 2008
Letter from Charles A. Smith to Joe Roark dated Aug 22, 1987
[Roark note: please keep in mind that the following is from Chas� perspective and that the other people involved have their, perhaps differing, perspectives]
Dear Joe,
Thank you for yours post dated August 15th and received by me three days later.
Did I tell you I had a call from Bill Hinbern. We spoke for at least 45 minutes. I was so busy wagging my chin that I forgot he was calling from so far away.
That date would be about right for my first article re Weider. At the time I was living at 3 West 103rd Street right by Central Park and he had somehow or other contacted me, after meeting me in company with Leo Gaudreau at Columbus circle. I recall there were loads of shots with the article�or at least there should have been since he handed me a whole batch of snaps to shove captions on. But, I think there was an earlier article�one he had lifted in toto from an Iron Man without my consent or even asking Rader. I hopped on him for this and received a check for ten bucks and a note asking me if I wouldn�t contribute on a regular basis. I remember mentioning this to some of the York crowd and receiving a stern warning about Joseph and to make sure I got paid promptly since he was, according to Messers Terpak et al, in the habit of forgetting to send a check.
As for what the Reverend told you in Chicago, he told the truth but only part of it. He failed to mention that when I called him saying I had been sleeping poorly and was in a bad temper as a result, and felt I couldn�t do my best at work, he snarled �As you like it,� then hung up on me as I was trying to explain further. This coupled with his connivings re the Eder article, plus the fact that I had discovered he had made what my informant said was a �very generous offer� to come over and work at the Collection, pissed me off more than somewhat, since I had been working there for years without pay. And he knew my financial circumstances and also that a few bucks more a month would have helped me.
So, NO, I won�t go back. Put your finger in the fire and burn it, is experience. Do it a second time and that�s stupidity. And I always felt I was being patronized, that I really wasn�t one of the team, but just a go-fer. His actions in the Eder article wre chicken shit. He deliberately LIED to me and more than once. He went behind my back, without my permission and consent. I have since found out thathe told Eder I was writing the article and he was trying to help me. Yet he contacts Balik�to demand that info he had obtained from Eder when he took him to lunch- and none of this told to me- be included in my article. The Reverend said nothing to me of this, nothing of having interviewed Eder, nothing of having phoned Balik re inclusion of more material in MY article. So I felt he was not to be trusted- he had always said he was my friend�and to quote some unknown, with a friend like this, who needs an enemy.
I was somewhat surprised at Joe Hood�s losing. He was so confident of winning. He came over to see me four or five days before he left for Chicago and seemed in good spirits. I had heard his suit blew during his squat. But what surprised me was the polygraph test and it being border line insofar as Joe was concerned. To the best of my knowledge and belief, Joe has never used steroids but I did think it most remarkable that he had put on so much weight and since he never had gone over 415 before I said �Hmm� to myself and wondered.
I have always liked Joe. He has seemed to me a forthright and simple guy meaning �uncomplicated,� and I would find it most difficult to believe he had resorted to steroids.
Why they use the polygraph I don�t know since it isn�t reliable and the results obtained from it are, in most courts in the U.S., inadmissible as evidence. It CAN be beaten and it Can give false readings- a hard night out on the town the day before you take the test, a poor night�s sleep, a rough argument with the wife or mother-in-law can do the trick.
I am also wondering how long it is gonna take the Drug Free Power people to get around to banning such things as suits- guaranteed �to put thirty to fifty pounds on one�s squat, tops�- guaranteed to put twenty to thirty pounds on your bench. It would seem to me that use of these devices is just as unfair as using steroids. After all, the purpose of conducting a lifting contest is to find out who is the strongest, and if devices such as tops, suits, wrappings etc etc are allowed to be used, then we don�t determine who is the strongest in any contest, but who uses the best drugs and the best equipment as auxiliarys. It makes one think that if these devices are allowable, then why not blocks and tackles or helping hands from loaders when the bench becomes slow at the so called sticking point.
I KNOW Weider never had a middle initial. One can only think that someone thought he had and used it and either Joe never noticed it or never cared.
There are many sides to the Hoffic-Wunderboy feud and not all of them have been told. But at the bottom of it all is Hoffie�s monumental vanity and the Wunderboy�s flair for snake oil salesmanship, PLUS the fact that he was treading most heavily on Hoffie�s turf, or what Hoffie thought was his exclusive turf. Hoffie would tolerate no opposition. He HAD to be top bull in the pasture, and what a lush pasture it has turned out to be.
No, I am not waiting for the Reverend to call me. I know where the phone is and know how to use the phone, and I feel not the slightest desire to whirl the dial.
Write soon and the best to you and yours,
Chas

Posted by TheEditor @ 09:59 PM CST
7/25/2008: Letter from Charles A. Smith to Joe Roark, dated August 11, 1987
Thursday, July 24, 2008
Letter from Charles A. Smith to Joe Roark dated August 11, 1987
Dear Joe,
Got your latest report yesterday and I must say you are steadily improving�body content and writing. In the latter you have made great strides.
The only fault, if it can be called that, is that the material on the Cyr DB was a tad too long. My feeling was that this could easily have been split in two parts�those who did it yesteryear and those who have done it after the so called Old Timers�and this is hardly criticism.
I also like the ideas of Arthur Saxon. I have always been a little suspicious of this man�s claims- or claims made for him- over the years.
Particularly do I find his two hands anyhow of 448 open to doubt. It may be that there are records saying where he did it, when he did it and how he got that 336 into his right shoulder. There may also be information as to those who were present and who were the officials and if it was weighed. But I have not been able to find this info- so I am not saying it doesn�t exist.
Particularly does his method of getting the bell into his right shoulder interest me. Did he clean it- one hand or two- did he upend it and �rock� it into his shoulder THEN bent press it?
Then comes the clincher. With this 336 overhead, he has to get a 112 pound dumbbell up to his left shoulder, while he is in the bent press bent legs position, STAND UP with the two weights, then, still holding the 336, AND dumbbell, overhead- the barbell at arms length, the dumbbell in at the left shoulder, PRESS the 112 DB overhead.
I am aware that Bill Pullum says he saw Saxon bent press 370 at either Bill Klein�s gym or Bill Bankier�s�that he had around 350 overhead and then TIED dumbbells onto the weight after Saxon had put the weight down. He is said to have bent pressed the bar�370 with dumbbells and plates tied on it, plates and bells kept falling off, Saxon continuing to hold the barell aloft, etc, etc, BUT I DO NOT BELIEVE this. Anyone who has deadlifted 400 off the floor knows what it feels like. Can either Saxon or one of his entourage have beaten Cheery Chinmore to the punch?
But your work will be most fruitful with the history of exercise equipment. You will find that neither the Wunderkind or Nautilus invented all those marvelous pieces of equipment at all�that most of them were in existence fifty, sixty and more years ago.
Frinstance, in the latest MMI of Kennedy, his new star? writer makes a remark to the effect that when Steinborn was squatting in his prime, the reason why Milo rocked the bar onto his shoulders after upending it was because there were no SQUAT STANDS in those days. This is nonsence since stands have been in being since men did squats. Ottley Coulter in his Apollo Course put out in 1922 tells you how to make a pair- as well as telling you how to do the SUMO STYLE of deadlifting. Ottley calling it a new way of DLing.
In a 1920 edition of the New York Newspaper WORLD TELEGRAM there is a shot of a piece of apparatus the exact counterpart of the so called modern PEC DECK. The only difference is that the 1920 equipment is not chromed. Caption on the shot is a long one and to the effect that the equipment is used in the Physical Therapy department of a hospital and strengthens the abductors and adductor muscles of the upper body.
Anyway, go at it. And success to your St. Joseph elbow.
Am interested in that Mr.___winner being shot before he won the contest. Strictly betwixt thou and I�who? This is, as you note, not the only time this sort of thing has been done.
Same goes for some�LOADS�of the articles in guess whose mags bearing the names of famous �stars�. Rarely, if any, were actually written by them. And if any did send in complete articles, then what appeared as the finished product was purely co-incidental. If there was no mention of the Wunderkind when the article arrived at guess whose desk, there were plenty of mentions of Mr. Wunderful when it appeared in print.
The last time I was up at the Collection I went through one year�s issue of a certain mag. I had written 54 articles under my own name and the names of others re bodybuilding�including those of Doug Hepburn�s. You only have to go through the mags to see the style and expression uses.
Hope all is well with you and yours,
Best answer. Chas.

Posted by TheEditor @ 09:36 PM CST
7/18/2008: Conclusion of letter from Charles A. Smith to Joe Roark, July 30, 1987
Thursday, July 17, 2008
As for my writing down my memoirs, I am too busy trying to figure out who I am and who the hell I can blame for it.
I haven�t heard from Balik in some time�But I do have finished and all ready to be typed THE HISTORY AND USE OF THE CHEAT PRINCIPLE.
I maybe could do an article on Hepburn, but it would require so much research re the poundages he handled and the method of training that this would entail spending hours at the Collection which I am unwilling to do. I could kick myself that I never but never kept a single copy of the many, many hundreds of articles I wrote. The last time I was up at the Collection I went through a year�s issue of � I think- MUSCLE POWER and found that I had, under my own name or the names of others, written 54 articles in that one mag for that one year. So Christ knows how many I wrote in that same year for all his other mags. Rabbits couldn�t have done more reproduction.
It is quite possible you will find me in the Wunderful Wanker�s early mags. I think- but can�t remember for sure- that I started writing for him as early as 1948 or 1949. I can however recall how I came to write for him. I had opened one of his mags one day and lo and behold, as Hans Christian Anderson says- there was one of my articles snatched from IRON MAN. I naturally hollered and along came a check for ten bucks- in Canadian Funds be it said which were at the time much cheaper than paying in US Dollars- Oh that Joe- so anyway a few scant days later along comes a letter from the Wunderful Wanker asking me to write on a regular basis.
At the same time, arrives a letter from YORK saying they had heard I was about to start writing for the Wanking Wunder and I should watch out since he tried to avoid payment. How in the name of the Sultan of Hades they ever found out- unless the Peerless and Honest Man from Nebraska tipped them off, I don�t know.
That ceramic jug of Hepburn�s which he gave me after winning the world champs was a Swiss WINE JUG and originally had red and white silk ribbons around it. They have long gone, Vera, when a little girl- around 2 years, taking them off-no-she must have been at least 5- since she was born in 1949.
I had a letter from Joe Assirati- or did I tell you already- that he is getting together a synopsis of what Charlie Assirati did and who he modeled for- sounds like a who�s who of the world�s famous artists.
Re that artifact that the Reverend has- it�s a full size- four by 5 ft 5 painting of Albert Atilla done by someone or the other. Don�t know who the artist is but I�m sure the Reverend will clue you in. He also bought all his medals which are displayed on a large board and framed, much like that lying sod Hoffman once used in his ads- purporting to show all the awards and decorations he had won until the Federal Trade Commission made him cease and desist.
Now should you be so lucky as to have your newsletter take off to the point where it will be difficult to produce. I am sure that if you ever reach that state of production- and I fervently hope you do- you will find loads of High School kids willing and able to help you for a few shekels per session and no sweat.
If you do land an ad in the Wanking Wunder�s mags- and I say IF advisedly � it may be possible that your newsletter may experience a modest upsurge, but because of its content and slant, I think that mainly those who are better educated in the History of the sport. I don�t think too many muscle heads will get into it unless it is tangentially � since they are more concerned with thickening the various parts of their anatomies, exposed as well as private, to be concerned with thickening their knowledge of who did what and when with whom and where.
Your best bet is a broad appeal- telling what�s current and what�s of interest historically. You can�t be all thing to all men but you can sure as hell have a stab at it.
Yes, share your annoyance at writing to people who will not reply. This especially hurts when you have been close to someone and have done much to help them reach the level on which they once stood- Marvin The Silent Eder for example. He NEVER ANSWERS and if you call him up his missue (sic) will answer the phone and find one excuse as to why he isn�t available. I would think much more of a man to whom I wrote, and who replied, �Go take a flying fuck at yourself�. At least he is being honest and making his feelings known.
Tell Meg I hope she likes advanced education and say I wish her well.
My best to you and yours, Chas.

Posted by TheEditor @ 09:12 PM CST
7/11/2008: The letter of Charles A. Smith to Joe Roark July 30, 1987 (Continued)
Friday, July 11, 2008
The letter of Charles A. Smith to Joe Roark July 30, 1987, continues:
A surprise last Tuesday. Came a rapping on the door- no it wasn�t a raven crying Nevermore, but the Reverend HIMSELF saying he had just�come to see �How you feel.� I held up my two hands and invited him in. Conversation went no where � at least not for me since he did all the talking, skirting around the Iran hearings, etc etc and only slowly approaching the question of my return to the Collection and when he got back from seeing Jow Hood take the 242�s he�d call me and see when I wanted to come in. I said quite openly that �I don�t feel like I want to.� And so it shall be.
If you burn a finger once, chalk it up to experience. Burn it twice under the same circumstances and that�s stupid. So I shall tell him that if he wants to bring me over stuff to sort and collate for him, I�ll do, but come back, No, No, a thousand times No.
Joe Hood was over a week or so ago and said that he fancied his chances of winning since his chief rival, John Kuc isn�t competing- at least so he was told. I uttered a �Caveat� here expressing the opinion that Kuc might have passed this around and then would totally demoralize Joe by TURNING UP and competing. However Joe feels he can take the title since he is now scaling 250, looks bloody huge- the bloody great ox, hopes to get a 765 squat, a bench of at least 450 and a dead lift of 810. He sure has put on a load of beef since I last saw him- thirty pounds odd of prime cuts.
Anyway, Joe is a nice guy, starts chiropractic school this coming September, has his master�s degree in exercise physiology and should do damn well if and when he graduates and I expect he will since he has loads in his noodle.
I am hearing lots from Herb Glossbrenner who is now writing me fulsome mail and inviting such from me and I am glad that my circle of correspondents is enlarging. He seems to be a nice bloke but wild about Anderson which I ain�t since I can�t understand how a man can make money off deprived kids in the name of all that�s charity, and drive around in an expensive car, and have his own plane which I understand he once did have. Too much like the PTL for me, although I may be doing him an injustice. I understand he has a tax free foundation.
I may sound cynical but knowing the nature of the beast, I�d keep your guard up in any dealings you have with the Wonderful Wanking Winder from Woodland Hills. He does NOTHING without considering the pros and cons as to what advantage he can gain from whatever enterprise he goes into. Nothing wrong with this of course since it is the mark of a good and prudent business man. But he applies this rule to EVERYTHING.
Boys [grandchildren] are calling me up each day now and the first ten minutes are spent in squabbling over who is gonna speak to Poppa first, one claiming he should since he made the phone call and the other saying he should talk first since he is the youngest, and this only leads to other rounds of negotiations a la Soviet American arms talks. Thunderous to say the last [sic].
Don�t know whether I mentioned it but Larry XXX got away with a �naughty naughty� and is having to go around telling youth groups of the dangers of imbibing steroids by vein or by mouth, and also is supposed to have been told he must have an 800 number so anyone can call him and get the same advice. He is claiming he did nothing wrong since he �ONLY sold then to friends,� said friends taxing the ability of a football stadium to contain the [sic]. This sort of excuse is like the Sultan of Turkey who was walking his harem one night only to be grabbed and soundly bussed. On discovering the culprit was his Grand Vizier he called for an excuse and was told, �Sorry Sultan, I thought you was your wife.� I am told it takes the good Larry two to three hours to pry his tongue from his cheek after he delivers one of his homilies.
Yes, time flies and how. Especially for me. I no sooner get up when it�s time for me to eat lunch. It seems but yesterday when I had my eys hauled into dry dock and refitted and that was in January and cold. Now it is bloody hot as the hobs of Hades,
Joe, you are an utter rotter. You keep telling me about those delicious beers you are quaffing and here I am, tongue and other things hanging out with the heat and perishing of thirst. You are no bloody good. Instead of sending three or four dozens of cases of the nectar, you just torture me with tales of its excellence and taste. Joe, you are no bloody good.
[conlusion of this letter next week]

Posted by TheEditor @ 09:45 AM CST
7/4/2008: Letter from Charles A. Smith to Joe Roark July 30, 1987, page 1
Thursday, July 3, 2008
Letter from Charles A. Smith to Joe Roark, July 30, 1987, page 1:
Thanks for your letter post dated July 27th which reached me yesterday, July 29th. Before I answer your letter, here is the info from POWER HOT LINE, June 30th, 1987:
MATT DIMEL�S DISASTERS. John Inzer informed us of Matt�s recent travails. While trying a 1020 squat in Louie Simmons gym in Columbus his foot slipped---with a video going of all things and his knees �exploded�- tendons muscles etc tearing loose. He even tore a biceps on the way down with the bar and ruptured an artery. He went through 9-1/2 hours of surgery- constructive- with three surgeons working away. He lost forty pounds of bodyweight and his thighs went from 36 to 27 inches after the operation, but it wasn�t the end of it. Later he began having chest pains and a blood clot from the extensive surgery lodged in a ventricle. He was prepped for heart surgery but they were able to dissolve the clot with intravenous drugs. Nonetheless, he was in intensive care for two days. Following that, in a wheelchair he had an accident in a handicapped bathroom and tore something else. That might not be the end of it as we have heard of additional problems on the way. Still, Matt claims he is coming back and reportedly wanted the normal size Teflon parts that had been inserted in his knee joints replaced with OVERSIZE EQUIPMENT TO HANDLE DEMANDS OF HIS FUTURE PLANS. (My caps.)
Now here we have this bibulous Bombay Booby claiming to have not only pressed overhead, but supported a weight seven times greater than that which caused Dimel�s disaster. But we have an ever greater booby in Dimel who after experiencing what he should have taken as a warning, wants heavier equipment than he now has in order to pursue his headlong path to permanent residence in a wheelchair. Well, we have�em all- all sorts of bloody idiots willing to risk not only their own health and happiness, but that of their friends, families and others who care for them.
[to be continued]

Posted by TheEditor @ 02:50 PM CST