Iron History with Joe Roark

Joe Roark's IronHistoryArchives.com

The HUGE library of Iron History compiled by Joe Roark.

Welcome to Iron History with Joe Roark!

Joe Roark has been studying the iron game since 1957, and by 1970 began a systematic gathering of information on index cards. By the time his first computer was acquired, there were several hundred thousand references to be typed into it.
For a few years he published his own newsletter called MuscleSearch: The Roark Report. By 1992 he was appointed as the IFBB Men's Bodybuilding Historian, and began writing about history for FLEX in his column Factoids. For ten years he contributed to Iron Game History from the U of Texas at Austin. Recently he also began writing All Our Yesterdays for FLEX.
His passion has always been the period between 1880 and 1920, with particular emphasis on the oldtime strongmen of that era. Joe will be offering bits of history for Cyberpump once per week, and the text will be relevant to the dates of the calendar for those events of yesteryear relevant to the coming week.
In this column, readers will also be able to ask Joe questions or comment on his posts. Note: The comments are solely for interaction between Joe and the readers only -- not reader to reader.

5/1/2009: Letter from Charles A. Smith to Joe Roark May 5, 1988, Part 1
Thursday, April 30, 2009
Letter from Charles A. Smith to Joe Roark May 5, 1988
Dear Joe,
Thanks for yours of the 2nd which reached me yesterday, the 4th.
Thanks for the address of SKI . I have often wondered where the old sod was living. The Reverend has his address, but somehow could never lay his hands on it when I asked for it. Just telling, not criticizing. I shall indeed drop the gritty old sod a line or three. I also hope he replies.
SKI was one of the two men Hoffie NEVER MESSED WITH- the other being John Davis. Both a little too good with their hands for Hoffie's taste. Hoffie preferred them shorter and lighter than he, as in Mark Berry and Orville Grabeel, although in the latter he caught a Tartar. I am told they trounced one another up one side of the street and down the other for over an hour, until some merciful bloke busted it up.
Re the lifting of the Apollon wheels. These as you know, were not really TRAIN wheels but wheels and a thick axle off some type of trolley, weighing so tis said, 364 pounds.
Now. There are several 'stories' about the lifting of these wheels and they may interest you. We are told that Louis Uni, as was Apollon's proper cognomen, LIFTED them. But we are told NOWHERE HOW HE LIFTED THEM. WE are not told if this was done clean and jerk style or continental and jerk style.
Although I have been through Desbonnet's book, 'Les Rois de la Force' I can't find anywhere HOW Uni lifted them. Not of course this means naught since my knowledge of French has dimmed somewhat with the passing of the years.
A lift overhead of 364 pounds was so extraordinary, even for those days that I feel sure we would have had some description of how it was done. Remember the worlds clean and jerk record didn't reach 364-3/4 until the early 1930's and by El Said Nossier, the Egyptian heavyweight. True, Swaboda (sic) and Grafl CONTINENTALLED way over 364 in the late 1890's and early 1900's but this is as I say was off a bit and EVERYONE HEARD OF IT. But no where are we told how Uni did it, or should I say nowhere can I, personally, find out how he did it.
Then we come to the next bloke alleged to have lifted the wheels, Rigoulot. He had to train for eight months before he is said to have accomplished the feat. Rigoulot, as you may have heard, was the first to clean and jerk 400 and that's ALL you are told. You are NOT told he used a special bar with a very long bar and loads of whip to it.
Comes Davis. John did clean and jerk the wheels. But he had such small hands that he had to grab hold of the bar in the usual way with one hand, then reverse or supinate the palm of the other hand and hook his wrist under the bar, pulling it in, thus swivelling the left hand as it racked in at the shoulders. He then jerked the bar overhead, was given the signal to lower it, blacked out at that moment, dropping the bar and BENDING THE AXLE.
Ski comes along in October of 1954, at Lille, France, cleans the bar with the shaft STILL BENT, and jerks it three times. DOug Hepburn said he would clean and PRESS the bar and said so in an article I wrote for him in one of Weider's pot boilers- I think it MAY have been Mr. America Olympic Lifter Mag, but who can recall with accuracy after more than 35 years. I am sure you can look up the article with your great filing system.
The Reverend did mention something to me about Kaz and getting the Apollon wheels out of mothballs---(didn't know moths had balls)---or ball bearings or whatever they are stored in, but little else or else it has slipped my memory. My memory is fading fast and I guess the next disaster to fall will be my girl friend will start complaining.
Yes, Ski was a gritty character, but I liked him, for what that is worth. I can recall once when I was the ref and redded him for a knee touch. I knew SKI went low in his snatches and I look for the white pressure patch on his knee and sure enough there it was, so I redded him. Ski looked at me and ,with a smile on his clock to make it legitimate, suggested I was full of the substance food turns into when ingested, digested and di

Posted by TheEditor @ 09:28 PM CST
4/24/2009: A 1988 letter from Charles A. Smith's letter to Joe
Friday, April 24, 2009
Part 1 of July 22, 1988 letter from Charles A. Smith to Joe Roark.
Daer Joe,
Thanks for yours post dated July 18 and arriving yesterday, the 21st.
So you had an answer from Ski. You might contact Herb Glossbrenner and ask him for a copy of his International Olympic Lifter, the very latest copy, due to come out this week. In it you will find an article by some obscure bloke named Smith, who deals with Ski lifting the Apollon Wheels. The article is one dealing with Ski's career and main points of his lifting life.
Don't know if SKi told you, but when he lifted the wheels at Lille, France, in October 1954, he cleaned them first attempt, then jerked them three times in succession from the shoulders- weight of wheels and axle 364 pounds. He was the FOURTH man to accomplish the feat, the first being Louis Uni, the next Rigoulot and the third John Davis. Davis couldn't use the regular grip, but had to take the bar, right hand gripping the bar, left hand wrist bent UNDER the bar, then swiveling the hand around to grip the bar when he racked it in. When he jerked it overhead, Davis then blacked out, dropped the bar and bent it, so Ski, who cleaned the bar with the customary grip, cleaned a BENT BAR.
Davis himself told me the story of cleaning and jerking the so called wheels and this is to be another article for Glossbrenner's mag in the near future. Rigoulot, I know, trained 8 months to clean trolley wheels. Anyway, if you get a copy of the mag, please feel free to quote from it.
I have heard of Wennerstrom but never met him. The others you mentioned I have never heard of- but then I've been out of the modern scene for so long now, and am drifting in and out of it like some phantom.
I hope you have seen the latest MUSCLE AND FITNESS. Jeff Everson has an article in it- the column NOW IT'S MY TURN, in which he talks about people who are ingrates and stab others in the back. I chuckled. He should know the fine points of back stabbing.
No I haven't heard from the Wanking Wunder of the Land where the Hills bear a lot of forestation. No article about me- as PROMISED- in his mag. No article BY me as PROMISED in his mag, Does this bloke ever keep a single promise he makes. One is given to thought.
Weather here is brutal. Hot. Humid. Me suffering with a lovely case of heat rash- known to all British Service men who were in places hot as PRICKLY HEAT. It comes like ten cases of hives and sleep is practically non existent. The large fan I have certainly moves the HOT air around and does nothing to cool things down. If I could afford it I'd air condition the place. But the thought of what it would cost makes me cringe. I'm presently having my house painted and the benighted heathen who is doing the job is charging me 1300 bucks and I have had to take a loan out to pay him. The saucy sod wanted me to pay him HALF before he began the work. I said no, vigoursly.
I thought Bannout was on the outs with the Wunderful Win. Seems as if they have kissed and made up. WOnder how much that cost BANNOUT.
Strossen. I have had a couple letters from him. Seems to be a very well educated bloke. What sort of work does he do and how old is he? I know he is married since hementioned a Mrs. Does he have any kids? I am told he has a PhD in Psychology. Worked at a bank a time or two. Anyway, I enjoy exchanging ideas with him.
I'm enclosing a cutting about Mr. Marvellous. Xerox it and return. True, this was written some 29 years ago, but the situation remains the same. The bloke doing the carving up job on Mr. Wonderful has had his column in the London Daily Mirror for Lo, these many many years. He must be dead by now since I recall him starting our in the late thirties with the column. A deft wielder of the knife when it came to cutting people down to size. Anyway, copy it, read it, chuckle, and return same to me. TX.

Posted by TheEditor @ 09:13 PM CST
4/17/2009: Conclusion of June 29, 1988 letter from Charles A. Smith to Joe Roark
Thursday, April 16, 2009
Conclusion of June 29, 1988 letter from Charles A. Smith to Joe Roark
Rumors re MD keep circulating. The latest is that the September issue will be the last. Dellinger wrote me- without any OTR provision- that they were NOT ceasing publication but simply trying to sell the magazine. In its present form it is horrible.
Nice to know Meg is doing well. The teens are such a hard time for kids and most parents make the mistake of forcing adulthood on them when they are just not emotionally able to handle it. I say the safest bet is to let the kid have his or her childhood and adolescent period, with you and the wife there as buffers to cushion the blows of disillusionment in the world, and to let them see that blokes over thirty can be trusted.
Re those Power Digest Aussie mags. I have promised you that when I find them, they shall be on their way to you. I always keep a promise. SO watch out. If I ever tell you I am after your ass, bet your pay check I am. No need to send postage. It's a quid pro quo arrangement twixt us. You scratch my back, I'll scratch yours. Presently I have to depend on a Chinese back scratcher I have. Or the not too frequent visit of an old girl friend.
Re the death of Dietz, Grimek hints at certain happenings, saying that a woman was involved. If he means Dietz died while giving some dame a flesh injection I don't know. I understand Michael was some sort of a philanderer.
H&S contains much to be interested in. Health and Efficiency was a nudist mag, although where the efficiency came in is past me, apart from time saving in taking one's clothes off to get at it. LINK HOUSE published many mags in addition to H&S, H&S, Superman- taking the latter over from its original publisher. But their biggest money maker was the EXCHANGE AND BAZAAR MART. This was a publication containing naught but ads selling peoples' cast offs and what one had and what one wanted to exchange for it. It was also full of senseless ads such as 'Meet me at Hyde Park Corner at midnight. You will recognize me because I will be carrying a barber's pole in one hand and a strangled giraffe in the other'. Sort of stuff.
So far as I can recall, H&E had a fairly long life, kept so by guys who purchased it to see naked bodies, only to find the vital parts either hidden or the public hair brushed out. There was another nudist mag called NATURE. But I have forgotten when and where, or even if it is still published. They also ran a couple of nudist camps way out in the boondocks, away from peeping toms and peering Patricians.
There used to be a story told about some cat who tried to join the nearest NATURE CLUB, being met at the door by a naked female who told him that before he could gain entrance he'd have to remove his blue serge suit. The cat, vastly indignant, said, 'I'm undressed already and I'm blue with the bloody cold'.
Your mention of the Inch Challenge BARBELL is the first I have heard of its existence. I of course know about the Inch challenge dumbell, with so thick a handle that it is SAID no one but Inch was able to lift it. Doubt this. Place it in the same category as those 22 inch arms and 28 inch waists.
A guy you might turn your attention to is Charles Vansittart, known on the Vaudeville stages as Vansart, the MAn with the Iron Grip. Now here was a cat who could do extraordinary things- such as tearing a tennis ball in half, PINCHING a corner out of a deck of cards, and crushing a champagne bottle in the bend of the elbow- this latter incredible since a champagne bottle is so much thicker than an ordinary wine bottle. ANd he did those things right in front of an audience. Another trick he had was to place a five pound note under a block of steel weighing 112 pounds. Anyone who could lift the block with thumb and finger could have the money. Vansittart demonstrated first how easy it was, then watched the dozens of suckers come up and fail miserably, not even getting the block off the deck. Research him. Will be worth it. He stood around 5.10, had an arm just 16 inches but what power in that arm and hand.
best to you and yours, Chas.

Posted by TheEditor @ 08:23 PM CST
4/10/2009: Part one of the June 29, 1988 letter from Charles A. Smith to Joe
Thursday, April 9, 2009
Part 1 of the June 29, 1988 letter from Charles A. Smith to Joe Roark
Dear Joe,
Thanks for yours post dated June 16th, arriving here yesterday, 28th. Thanks also for the enclosed copies of the Hepburn stuff.
I tore the house apart trying to find out what I had done with my copies and couldn't turn'em up. I guess when I ain't looking for them, there they will suddenly be.
Randall Strossen mentioned in one of his letters that he proposed to do an article on Doug and I told him what I knew, also intending to send him the Hepburn stuff but, as I said, was unable to find it. I recalled I had let you have it to copy and you had returned it. But thanks for your kindness, which is most appreciated. I didn't want Strossen to think I was bullshitting him when I said I had trained Hepburn, or, when he does interview that worthy, Doug had forgotten the role I played in his run to the world title, and brushes me off as a mere acquaintance.
The weather here is absolutely bloody miserable and I am sleeping very poorly. itching with heat rash, unable to cool despite the fan in my bedroom.
The Reverend has some very interesting material on Carlin Venus in which he is revealed as a colossal bullshit artist, one of those who buys his doctorate from a diploma mill. He, Venus, has also threatened to sue anyone who says he isn't a genuine Doctor, that is a PhD. I also understand his wife is an RN who helps run the vitamin mill which Venus runs- what a bloody name to be saddled with. In his claims he forgets to mention that the 400 pound rep presses he does with one arm- already yet- is done on some kind of a machine. Anyway, the Reverend, if in the right mood, might send you what he has on the Carlin Venus. It is eye opening and typical of all the bovine bowel movement floating around today.
I think it would be a pity if MuscleSearch suffered a demise, It is needed not only as a journal for the iconoclast, but as valuable history manual. It just amazes me how many blokes think, and truly and sincerely, that lifting just wasn't around before the advent of Hoffie and the Wunderful Wun.
You will find that there is little, if any, difference between the way the- champs- trained then and now. The only difference I can see is that, although they use the same exercises- apart from also those weird and wonderful machines around now- they train harder and longer, and are able to do this because of the shorter work week- if by some strange chance any of them do work in the sense that you and I understand work- and because things social and economic have improved so much from the 40s and now. Most people forget we have- that is the world has- undergone profound social, cultural and economic changes. When I was a youngster, the work week was 70 to 80 hours weekly, six days a week. Now it is down to 40 and even 35- five day and sometimes a four day work week. And of course we now have steroids which accounts for some of the giant bodies today, despite credits given to this or that Muscle Mogul's 'system' of training.

Posted by TheEditor @ 09:30 PM CST
4/3/2009: Conclusion of the June 21, 1988 Letter from Charles A. Smith to Joe
Thursday, April 2, 2009
Part 2 of June 21, 1988 letter from Charles A. Smith to Joe Roark
Re that basal cell carcinoma. I couldn't care less. I know it is a minor matter and that it is removed by incision. Whether or not I shall have to be hospitalized I don't know. The doctor who did my check up says it can be done in the office, but I trust doctors as much as I trust priests, politicians, and lawyers.
The info I got about York trying to sell the mag came from Dellinger himself. Personally I think it is a foolish move since the mag is naught but the catalogue for York products- protest against this as you will- and therefore the mag is needed. Can you imagine how Weider sales would go over without any of his mags?
Slip Saxon was a writer for H&S and, if my memory serves me right after more than half a century, usually wrote about track and field. In my opinion the name was a pen name and probably one of the staff of Health and Strength was Slip. Parsley? All I can remember about him is that he wrote for H&S- obvious isn't it?
Grimek wrote me and told me about his encounter with the Wunderful Wun. He said he sat at the same table as Mr. Wunderful and his missus, also with Arnold, etc etc, the l;atter telling him HE would do all he could to help him in his lawsuit- saying what an inspiration Grimek wa to Arnold etc etc. What a load of bullshit. Inspiration isn't the issue here at all. At the same time, Grimek said that, though he had buried the hatchet, he WOULDN'T TRUST WEIDER AT ALL. His business. You can lead a whore to culture but you can't make her think, as Dorothy Parker once remarked. A non seqitur, this, it would seem.
TWO separate people have told me that when Hoffie was in his dottage, our friend tried to get him to sign a contract for 12 articles for 35 THOUSAND bucks. Hoffie's girlfriend phones Grimek and asked- belay/that, she phoned TERPAK and asked him what to do. Terpak told her to snatch the contract out of our pal's hands and heave it into the fire- which was done.
Any one who claims- male that is- to have a twenty eight inch waist- and a bodybuilder to boot, is digging his own grave and needs no help from anyone else to make him look and sound foolish. He is doing a bloody fine job all on his own. Who cares anyway, except gullible kids and beginners. This sort of stuff is typical of the hogwash printed in muscle slicks today.

As for Park. Something else to chalk up to experience. I should have known. Reg knows how I helped him so no one should be required to jog his memory or his elbow. Yes, the article was worth reading as it related to Park, which I guess was the sole purpose of writing and publishing it, so why am I complaining?
Re the Old Timers deal. I'd much prefer to see some semblance of order than presently exists, if only to protect Boff's rep. There SHOULD BE A COMMITTEE handling affairs. The fifteen bucks would not go into paying the cost of holding a dinner, that is paying for the meal, but simply to run the organization. The meal costs 35 to 40 bucks, PLUS hotel and traveling expenses for those who live out of town- and in my case these were considerable. No, I'd like to see a Chairman, a Secretary and a Treasurer to see what membership funds came in are put to proper use. That remark made by Andy Jackson isn't as far off the truth as you might think.
I have seen some letters from Jowett bitterly complaining that the bloke you mentioned shafted him re some funds he, Jowett, should have got but didn't.
Let not the way people write to you amaze you. I have dealt with cases and situations that must have had Kraft Ebbing turning over in his grave as fast as a spinning top. As the old time comedian Lew Lehr used to say, 'People are the CRAZIEST people'.
Vic has complained many times that he has had to bear the costs and - what he said was- the losses from running the annual bash. So his call for 15 bucks per, indicates one thing to me, he is trying to avoid the losses. Nothing wrong with this of course.
I am wondering if it is the Flushing Flash trying to buy MD. I hope not. I wonder what Dellinger's position will be, rather IF, the mag is sold. I am told that one of the heirs wants to take her money and hop it. wise move this since I see some deadly power struggles and dirty in fighting soon. What a pity. Reminds me of the Decline and fall of the Roman Empire. NOTHING lasts. All things pass, yeah to the fourth and fifth generation. A hundred years from now, I wonder where I Brute Enterprises- the title of Weider's company- will be. I think of, and remember what an empire Sandow had with an enormous office and warehouse right close to where I once lived at the Elephant and Castle. Gone now, and forgotten. Sic transit gloria mundi.
Thank you for being so kind. Thanks too for writing and don't forget, if it is possible, to send me the Doug Hepburn- two of'em-xeroxs.
best to you and yours,
Chas

Posted by TheEditor @ 07:39 PM CST