Joe Roark's IronHistoryArchives.com
The HUGE library of Iron History compiled by Joe Roark.
Welcome to Iron History with Joe Roark!
Joe Roark has been studying the iron game since 1957, and by 1970 began a systematic gathering of information on index cards. By the time his first computer was acquired, there were several hundred thousand references to be typed into it.
For a few years he published his own newsletter called MuscleSearch: The Roark Report. By 1992 he was appointed as the IFBB Men's Bodybuilding Historian, and began writing about history for FLEX in his column Factoids. For ten years he contributed to Iron Game History from the U of Texas at Austin. Recently he also began writing All Our Yesterdays for FLEX.
His passion has always been the period between 1880 and 1920, with particular emphasis on the oldtime strongmen of that era. Joe will be offering bits of history for Cyberpump once per week, and the text will be relevant to the dates of the calendar for those events of yesteryear relevant to the coming week.
In this column, readers will also be able to ask Joe questions or comment on his posts. Note: The comments are solely for interaction between Joe and the readers only -- not reader to reader.
4/1/2005: Letter from Charles A. Smith to Joe Roark June 4, 1987
Thursday, March 31, 2005
Letter from Charles A. Smith to Joe Roark June 4, 1987
Dear Joe,
Got your latest RR [Roark Report] yesterday and I must say it was GREAT---TERRIFIC. This is the sort of stuff you should dish out in each issue.
I was also very happy for you to learn the sub list is growing. Keep at it and I know that one day, in the not too distant future, you will be a force to reckon with.
I was particularly impressed with the seg on Albert Beckles. This in itself would make a very fine article. You know how much confusion there is over the vital statistics of BBs. It is like drawing teeth to get an HONEST reply re measurements, lifts, ages etc etc. Try measuring their arms one day. The excuses you�ll get as to why you can�t would make a novel in themselves. Most will refuse. And it is obvious that most of the tapings they claim are as phony as a politician�s pre election promises.
Latest news from here is that the State government has closed down all the body wrap parlors, saying their claims are fraudulent and the chemicals used in the wraps can be dangerous to health. Goody goody gum drops. It is about time something was done about these phonies.
I can�t recall if I told you that, at the request of XXX, I went through �his� book with a fine tooth comb. I have never read such a load of hogwash in my life. I see the fine hand of XXX here with the constant laudatory remarks about the Wonderful [One] From The Hills--- Woodland of course.
There is one passage that claims Chuck Sipes had a forearm of over 18 INCHES. Not even Apollon or Goerner had forearms this big. Other stuff in it is repetitive of material culled from English mags such as VIGOR and H&S that go back to the late twenties, and all presented as NEW and SECRET.
I have tried to find someone who can get me a card for Meg�s graduation. So far no luck, but I�ll get there. Please let me have her last name and, please, give her my very best wishes for a successful and happy future life.
Charlie Assirati has his statue on half the bloody buildings in London, among them SHELL HOUSE on the Embankment, SOUTH AFRICA HOUSE etc etc. He was one of THE greatest models in the UK.
Best to you and yours,
ChasPS: Did I tell you that David Chapman will be in Austin the 24th and will stay until the 26th. No sign of the Todds yet. They are still away. But if you write them, please don�t mention about Chapman. I�ll tell them AFTER he arrives.
Posted by TheEditor @ 08:38 PM CST
3/25/2005: Night of Champions contest history by Joe Roark
Thursday, March 24, 2005
Night of Champions contest history by Joe Roark:
Here are chronological and alphabetical lists of the men who have won the IFBB Night of Champions contest which ran from 1978 through 2004. As of 2005 a new event titled The IFBB New York Pro will be contested.
Included in the alphabetical list is the birth date of each competitor so far as I know. The date for Al Beckles of course, varies from report to report, but I believe the date offered is correct.
The Night of Champions was always held in the month of May with two exceptions in 1985 and 1986.
Night of Champions Winners List:
1. May 6, 1978 Robby Robinson
2. May 12, 1979 Robby Robinson
3. May 10, 1980 Chris Dickerson
4. May 9, 1981 Chris Dickerson
5. May 8, 1982 Al Beckles
6. May 21, 1983 Lee Haney
no contest in 1984
7. Jun 15, 1985 Al Beckles
8. Jun 14, 1986 Lee Labrada
9. May 16, 1987 Gary Strydom
10. May 21, 1988 Phil Hill
11. May 20, 1989 Vince Taylor
12. May 19, 1990 Mohamed Benaziza
13. May 18, 1991 Dorian Yates
14. May 16, 1992 Kevin Levrone
15. May 22, 1993 Porter Cottrell
16. May 21, 1994 Mike Francois
17. May 20, 1995 Nasser El Sonbaty
18. May 18, 1996 Flex Wheeler
19. May 17, 1997 Chris Cormier
20. May 16, 1998 Ronnie Coleman
21. May 22, 1999 Paul Dillett
22. May 20, 2000 Jay Cutler
23. May 19, 2001 Orville Burke
24. May 18, 2002 Markus Ruhl
25. May 31, 2003 Victor Martinez
26. May 22, 2004 Melvin AnthonyAlphabetical list of the 23 Night of Champions winners:
by Joe Roark
Date: Winner:
no contest in 1984: Birthdate: Age:
May 22, 2004 Anthony, Melvin Nov 13, 1972 31
May 8, 1982 Beckles, Al Jul 4, 1938 42
Jun 15, 1985 Beckles, Al Jul 4, 1938 46*
May 19, 1990 Benaziza, Mohamed Sep 9, 1959 30
May 19, 2001 Burke, Orville Mar 18, 1962 39
May 16, 1998 Coleman, Ronnie May 13, 1964 34
May 17, 1997 Cormier, Chris Aug 19, 1967 29
May 22, 1993 Cottrell, Porter Aug 30, 1961 31
May 20, 2000 Cutler, Jay Aug 3, 1973 26
May 10, 1980 Dickerson, Chris Aug 25, 1939 40
May 9, 1981 Dickerson, Chris Aug 25, 1939 41
May 22, 1999 Dillett, Paul Apr 12, 1965/67 24/25
May 20, 1995 El Sonbaty, Nasser Oct 15, 1964 30
May 21, 1994 Francois, Mike Mar 4, 1965 29
May 21, 1983 Haney, Lee Nov 11, 1959 23
May 21, 1988 Hill, Phil Oct 12, 1963 24
Jun 14, 1986 Labrada, Lee Mar 8, 1960 26
May 16, 1992 Levrone, Kevin Jul 16, 1966 25
May 31, 2003 Martinez, Victor Jul 29, 1973 29
May 6, 1978 Robinson, Robby May 24, 1946 31
May 12, 1979 Robinson, Robby May 24, 1946 32
May 18, 2002 Markus Ruhl Feb 22, 1972 30
May 16, 1987 Strydom, Gary Sep 18, 1960 26
May 20, 1989 Taylor, Vince Aug 25, 1956 32
May 18, 1996 Wheeler, Flex Aug 23, 1965 30
May 18, 1991 Yates, Dorian Apr 19, 1962 29Most frequent NOC Competitors (6 or more): data thru 2004 season
Robby Robinson 10 1978-1992
Milos Sarcev 10 1991-2003
Pavol Jablonicky 10 1992-2004
Dan Smith 9 1988-1998
Al Beckles 8 1981-1991
Jocelyn Peletier 8 1987-2003
Ken Jones 7 1998-2004
Berry Kabov 7 1994-2003
Henderson Thorne 7 1990-1998
Darrem Charles 6 1992-2004
Bill Grant 6 1978-1988
Mike Matarazzo 6 1993-2001
Tony Pearson 6 1982-1993
Data thru 2004 for Night of Champions:
Youngest winner: 23 Lee Haney 1983
Oldest Winner: 41 Chris Dickerson 1981 [Beckles age 42 in 1982, 46 in 1985?]
Most consecutive entries: Kenny Jones 7
Longest span in NOC: Mohamed Makkawy 1980-1999
NOC winners who also have won Mr. Olympia:
Dickerson, Haney, Yates, Coleman
Posted by TheEditor @ 08:39 PM CST
3/18/05: Letter from Charles A. Smith to Joe Roark May 29, 1987
Thursday, March 17, 2005
Letter from Charles A. Smith to Joe Roark May 29, 1987
Sig Klein is dead. He passed away Saturday 23rd, the day the Old Timers meet was held. Details such as time, cause etc etc unknown. He was buried on Tuesday- so I was informed-from the Riverside Chapel in NYC. I imagine the cause of death was his colon cancer, but this is surmise.
Milo Steinborn had travelled up to NYC for the Bash, intending to carry on from there to Europe and Germany. He had arranged to go and see Sig on Sunday, the morning after the Bash, and was quite distraught when he learned of Sig's death. I am told the get together was a success, Bill Pearl, Bert Goodrich, Steinborn and other notables present. The Reverend Todd did NOT attend, being tied up in some Ohio town delivering a paper.
XXX, aka the Flushing Flash has himself in a load of trouble. It seems that someone had found a way of setting back his Pitney Bowes mailing machine, shoving postage on it without going through that irritating formality of having the US Post Office do it for him. This has been going on since 1979 to the tune - so I am told- of fifty thousand bucks. The postal people got a tad suspicious when someone noticed that he never came into the designated Post Office to have his meter adjusted. So the Postal Inspectors- stay away from these birds- they make the IRS Investigators appear like a bevy of cherubs from Heaven- began an investigation, found out what was going on and got extremely upset. They laid a heavy hand on the broad and now flabby shoulders of the Flash, made him spend a few hours in the slammer until he made bond. He blames it on one of his 'employees'. Says. Who me? Didn't know what was going on. He is charged with a Class A Federal Felony and could get a stretch plus an horrendous fine. Just shows you. People get so greedy they aren't satisfied with a sufficiency but want the whole bloody lot.
[regarding Lange and the claimed bench press of 403 for eleven reps]: My personal opinion on the article is that it was one of those offerings a la Ernest Coffin, when that late worthy got running off at the typewriter about Sandow. Just too much hero worship and not enough facts. Pity this, since this sort of stuff deceives so many.
Anyway Balik called me the other night, aid he had got my article [on Marvin Eder], that even the gal who does his copy editing for him and knows nothing about lifting was impressed and it would be published AS IS, that it was one of the best articles he had ever read- that even Artie Zeller, bosom buddy of Marvin thought it great. Nice and cheering up, so we shall see what we shall see.
[re an editor of a famous bodybuilding mag]: He did mention that it was XXX who got into the gals pants by making them promises of this and that.
[in regard to a book on exercise which Charles had read]: Anyway, I am gonna hold a threat over your head. Unless you write me regularly letter for letter, I am gonna SEND you the book and sit back and see you suffer. You may plead with me but my ears are deafened. So. There.
XXX made a serious error in that XXX article. He was told by the Cheery Chappie that he must not under any circumstances use the shot the Cheery one sent him of raising that 7 thousand odd overhead. So in its place XXX used, as you know, a drawing. I told him he had a lot to learn about editing. The caption under that drawing should have said that 'We had a shot of the lift, but XXX forbade us to use it, so here's a drawing in its place. Draw your own conclusions' or some such. The amazing thing to me- or is it not amazing but an attempt at BRAIN WASHING- is that the Cheery Wun's followers are intent on convincing people that XXX did indeed press 7 thousand with one arm. In fact it would seem they are also trying to convince themselves with the fervor displayed.
The man is obviously a fake or a fool- or possibly both.
Just look at the number of plates on that bar. At 36 cents per pound, the present going rate for discs, they have 2500 bucks tied up in 100 pound plates alone- and forget what that supporting apparatus cost. The question should be asked, would not this amount of money do more good in easing the suffering of the homeless in NYC, than in the attempt to obtain self glorification for some nut.
I rest my case.
Friend,
Chas.Posted by TheEditor @ 09:19 PM CST
3/11/2005: Letter from Charles A. Smith to Joe Roark May 21, 1987
Thursday, March 10, 2005
Letter from Charles A. Smith to Joe Roark May 21, 1987
Re the Lange article. Most interesting and it told me lots I didn't know. Not too much has been written about Father Lange, However, there were two items in the article with which I take issue. One was the statement that Father Lange got his doctoral degree at St. Edwards University in Austin-this isn't too far from where I live. St. Edwards NEVER HAS HAD A DOCTORAL PROGRAM. Not then and not now. Their highest program is a Master's-MBA.
And as for that eleven reps with 403: May I put it politely and say BULLSHIT. Father Lange MAY have benched 403, possibly two reps. But eleven reps, why some of our best present day power lifters couldn't do it. But one thing this does point out, and that is that the Wunderkind didn't invent the bench press as he claims. And it WAS being practiced in the 1920's.
[Roark note: Charles would of course spell practiced with an s not a c but the Word program I am using switches to our (American) system automatically]
Now for the sad news. Reg Park's father died around three weeks ago. He was 86. I am told the cause of death was cancer. Mrs. Park survives him and she is 82.
Charles Assirati, Joe's brother passed away Friday, 15th of May. He had an old friend around 80 who used to deliver his paper each morning. Around 7 when Charlie got up. The old boy shoved the paper through the letter box and took off coming back around 9am. He had a key to Charlie's apartment. When he tried to get in the chain was still on the door. So he called the superintendent of the building and when they got in, they found Charlie sitting in the kitchen in a chair, paper in his hand, dead. The funeral was held yesterday. Chas was 78. He had one of the finest physiques I have ever seen, and posed for statues adorning half the buildings in London. He also posed for the statues of the fountains in Trafalgar Square. I just called Joe---it's his 82nd birthday today, and he was pretty cut up about it.
Now for more news.
Weider: He also remarked that 'We are letting XXX go."
[Roark note: The following XXX is a different man]
I know about XXX and his promising certain women certain favors if they in return gave him certain favors. Grimek told me this, mentioning his name outright as being informed by XXX himself as to what he did and how he did it.
The Game is indeed in a load of trouble with certain men running it. It was bad in the old days, but never like it is now. We seem to be populated by men and women with permanent cases of the hots.
As for articles carrying the names of the famous, men and women who didn't write the articles. That has, as you know, been going on for as long as the Game itself. Ron Walker, for instance, in the late HEALTH AND STRENGTH in England had numerous articles published under his name, as did Arthur Saxon, Staff Sargeant Moss and others. None of them had written the articles but had had others write them with the famous as authors. GHOST WRITTEN. The Wunderkind did this ad nauseam in his mags. Articles by Ross, Reeves, Park, Hepburn, Goldberg and countless others, that were all written or else RE WRITTEN by Bart [Horvath] or I.
In his most recent letter, Grimek told me that when XXX left Weider, he at once applied for a job with S&H but was turned down because of his unstable background, involvement in drugs- now whether John meant steroids or hard stuff I don't know. But Grimek did say he had personally seen XXX, flat on his back out to the Crab Nebula and back with people walking by, looking at him and tut-tutting.
Sorry this letter isn't longer.
Best to you and yours,
ChasPosted by TheEditor @ 09:29 PM CST
3/4/2005: Some Iron History Q&A with Joe
Thursday, March 3, 2005
Question:
Based on your research, do you consider a ratio of one's upper arm size to wrist size an valid measure of one's upper body muscular development (given a bodyfat% of 10%)?
If so, could you provide some yardsticks or goals to strive for?
Regards,
Chris Heer
Answer:
Chris, It does appear that wrist circumference can be used as a ratio of limits.To measure the forearm the way the oldtimers did, keep the entire arm straight: no bending the elbow, no bending at the wrist. A clenched fist is allowed. Measured in this way, if a forearm is twice the wrist circumference there is a world class forearm being measured! Measure around the most muscular part of the forearm but keep the tape perpendicular to the forearm itself- no 'slanting' of the tape.
In regard to upper arm size, the only arm I have ever heard of being triple the wrist was Manfred Hoeberl's when I measured it twice backstage and measured it again on stage at the 1995 Arnold Classic. It was 25.5" backstage, and on stage after a few one arm curls, it measured 26", which was triple his wrist measurment.
Marla Duncan, the fitness model was also on stage and I measured her waistline- it was also 26". So her waist could have hung off Manfred's shoulder. Her waist width measured with calipers (Hey somebody's gotta do this hard research) was 10", which was also the height of Manfred's flexed upper arm!
Lastly, I placed one Pepsi can atop aother Pepsi can and put these up against his flexed upper arm, which was slightly taller than the height of the two cans! But even Manfred's forearm was NOT twice the size of his wrist. Actually when I am refused after asking to measure an upper arm, I request to measure the wrist. Then I know the probable limits.
Question:
This might seem like a strange question, but I was wondering what the views of the old time strongmen and lifters from the late 1800s-mid 1950s was on aerobic exercise. Many powerlifters today feel that while trying to gain strength it is counterproductive but good for weight loss. Did lifters back then even have awareness of aerobic exercise? Thanks!
SteveAnswer:
Though articles can be written about a topic without that topic being mentioned in the title, it is interesting that the earliest article on aerobics in my files was: Mr. America May 1969 You Can Build Athletic Fitness with Aerobics and Anaerobics- by Murray
As one suspected by looking at some of the oldtimers, aerobics, especially as we understand the term was not a major (if any) portion of their training.
Even the Farmer's Walk aka Farmer's Carry, wherein the heartbeat can increase at tremendous rate by simply walking quickly while carrying a heavy weight in each hand is a relatively new feat. Lifting News reported Bill Piephoff carry a 'thick handled' 160 lb bell in each hand for 130 yards on Jul 4, 1959 to win that event.
Even the overhead of lifting of weights whether one handed or two handed was not done for many reps in the sense we understand that term today.
By thinking that body size whether from muscle or from fat created strength, some of the oldtimers put themselves into a position of not feeling 'inclined' to perform aerobic work.
Question:
Joe,
Speaking of Paul Anderson you stated:
In general terms, he increased his press 57 lbs in 23 months, his clean and jerk went from 425 to 440 in 14 months (a pound a month).
If you refer to his leg strength increases, then yes, phenomenal gains at
a pace that literally lapped his opponents.Question:
For comparison purposes, can you outline or estimate Paul's leg strength increases in the squat in weekly or monthly terms similar to those stated for his pressing and clean and jerk? Can you give an estimate of his age at the time these impressive gains were being made?Thanks for sharing such vast and valuable knowledge!
Answer:
Well, here the the milestones in Paul's single rep squats; poundages rounded off:
Oct 25, 1952 605 lbs
Dec 27, 1952 660 lbs
May 17, 1953 714 lbs
Jul 25, 1953 762 lbs (which was 97 lbs more than anyone else)
Jan 2, 1954 820 lbs in 1955 he was credited with 900 with a 3 second bottom pause. Was this in official competition? Also in 1955 reference is made to 910 lbs. In 1957 his silver dollar squat in Reno, Neveda at the Mapes Hotel had been variously reported at from 900 to 1100 or more pounds, and when Paul mentioned in Nov 1964 that his best squat to date was 1,200 lbs, I assume that was also the silver dollar squat.So officially, it appears his best squat went from 605 to 820 from Oct 1952 to Jan 1954- a span of 14 or 15 months. His unoffical squats, not performed on standard equipment were reported as 1,100 or 1,200 pounds, which some will defend and some will question.
He is also credited with fantastic poundages in the rep squat- perhaps ten reps with 700 or even 800, but these were sometimes impromptu and not in official settings.
However, it is my opinion, that Paul remains the greatest squatter we have yet seen. Sometimes lacking gear to the point of no shoes! Certainly none of the nonsense gear outer and 'inner' that is so prevalent today.
Question:
Given the popularity of the bench press, I was wondering when it first started appearing as a performed exercise. Is there any history associated with its creation? I know that deadlifts and overhead presses have been performed practically since caveman days but I heard that the bench press is relatively new. I also hear that the heavy weighted parallel bar dip was actually the premier pushing movement of the sort that the bench is now back in the old days. Thanks
SteveAnswer:
Steve, Even though 'prone' means face down and supine means on the back, and this was commented upon in Health & Strength mag in Mar 1941, Ironman mag in its ads continued calling the bench press bench 'prone' until the May 1975 issue. (though it did appear correctly in articles before then)
The bench press has a family tree that includes the 'floor press' or the 'press on back'- meaning that the lifter would usually be on the floor, roll or lift or have handed to him the barbell and then perform reps with a range of motion hindered when the elbows contacted the floor, the very factor that gave rise to the idea of a bench so elbows could descend farther.
By May 1953 H&S was calling the movement 'press on bench' because the bench had been invented, apparently, in the late 1940s- albeit without uprights attached at first. H&S in 1953 offers 'This is a very new lift- it was introduced officially in 1951'.
Before upright supports were attached to the bench, independent uprights were set near the bench for the lifter- in the early days (by 1956) H&S offered an article on how to use bench press stands.
In 1958 Hubert Grills wrote in H&S saying that the bench press 'began to gain popularity at the end of WW II'.
Without stands/uprights, sometimes trainees would use the 'pullover and press'. One of Grimek's early articles on the BP was in Strength & Health Jun 1953.
Ironman offered a how to make a bench article in Dec 1948.
S&H's first ad for an adjustable bench was 1950, first with three positions of adjustment, later that year with nine.
There is a photo presented in 1951 at Irv Johnson's Gym in Chicago that shows a bench with uprights.
Hopes this helps- quick sketch; incline, decline etc all being added at various times. But of course the real 'decline' in the bench press came when elbows were wrapped and bench shirts were invented.
Question:
What information do you have as to JC Hise's top squat and deadlift? I have seen both recorded as 600 x 1 and 700 x 1, but never anything between, and never a mention of when they were actually done. Also, since Hise was one of the first devotees of high rep squatting, I was wondering what info you have as to his abilities there. I have read or heard 500 x 20, but that seems quite high for a 600 one rep max. Thanks.
Answer:
There is very little in my files about specific lifts and dates for Hise. He did once defeat Grimek in a lifting contest though- a fact that Grimek did not remember at first.
Ironman mentioned in May 1961 that JCH was then living in Uravan, Colorado and squatting 500 pounds for 20 reps- but this was on the Douglass Hula-Hoop (Magic Circle).
Two years before that S&H mentioned JCH was squatting 400 for 25 reps, one assumes with barbell.
I have dozens of articles on Hise that I have not yet added to my files- mostly I have studied his chronology. So the top single for the squat and deadlift may be in one of those articles.
If anyone has the details handy please share them, along with your source for the info. Thanks. Regarding the deadlift- don't know.
Posted by TheEditor @ 08:14 PM CST
