Joe Roark's IronHistoryArchives.com
The HUGE library of Iron History compiled by Joe Roark.
Welcome to Iron History with Joe Roark!
Joe Roark has been studying the iron game since 1957, and by 1970 began a systematic gathering of information on index cards. By the time his first computer was acquired, there were several hundred thousand references to be typed into it.
For a few years he published his own newsletter called MuscleSearch: The Roark Report. By 1992 he was appointed as the IFBB Men's Bodybuilding Historian, and began writing about history for FLEX in his column Factoids. For ten years he contributed to Iron Game History from the U of Texas at Austin. Recently he also began writing All Our Yesterdays for FLEX.
His passion has always been the period between 1880 and 1920, with particular emphasis on the oldtime strongmen of that era. Joe will be offering bits of history for Cyberpump once per week, and the text will be relevant to the dates of the calendar for those events of yesteryear relevant to the coming week.
In this column, readers will also be able to ask Joe questions or comment on his posts. Note: The comments are solely for interaction between Joe and the readers only -- not reader to reader.
1/20/2009 - A Letter from Charles A. Smith to Joe Part One, May 12, 1988
Thursday, January 29, 2009
Letter from Charles A. Smith to Joe Roark,, May 12, 1988, part 1.
Dear Joe,
Thanks for yours post dated May 9th reaching me here yesterday the 11th. Thanks also for the enclosed cutting about which I have some comments including "what a chicken shit thing to do'. Here was a man with his master's degree in exercise physiology, a licensed physical therapist and in doctoral candidate school, pulling off a stunt that any two bit thief and small time crook would have laughed at. Padding a payroll. I had heard a rumor that he had been fired for some sexual peccadillo- flashing at some young co-eds I was told. When I broached the subject with the Reverend, he refused to discuss it saying that 'there were too many rumors floating around as it was'. My feeling is that, in part, the bloke mentioned in the news cutting was another victim of the American drive for money. YOU TOO CAN BE PRESIDENT. YOU TOO CAN MAKE IT RICH. BE A MILLIONAIRE, ROLL IN DOUGH, etc etc. What a pity that a guy with so much talent made such an asshole of himself. Goes to show that education is no guarantee that common sense or integrity comes with a degree.Re Randall Strossen. I haven't heard from him yet. I don't mind you giving my address to people so long as you are selective- that is exercise some discretion. I wouldn't want it to get into the hands of any Moonbeam From The Larger Lunacy- the Sri Chinmoy crowd. I just don't want to be bothered by these bloody idiots.
I have also heard rumors- did I mention this to you- re MD folding. It seems -so it is RUMORED- that Dietz wants to cut and run, while Johnny Terpak wants to keep the mag going, recognizing and correctly that there has to be a catalogue for York products. Dietz it would seem is all for cashing in his chips and hiking it with no muss no fuss, and live happily ever after- for the short time he has left. I understand his ticker isn't in too good a shape and his health wanting in some respects.
Parington. No, it was PARTINTON*** T. Bowen Partington, who had set himself up as a sexologist of some low sort, have lectures around the country to which ladies flocked with parted lips and heaving bosoms hoping to listen to something real spicy and getting only a double entendre filled act in which lots was hinted at and nothing specific said. By the way, Partington's nickname was 'The Bolton Corner Boy'. Don't ask me why. I'll try to find out. But this is the name he was known by when he was writing for H&S. He wrote, I believe, from the late 20's to Christ knows when. Partington was known as a 'swordsman' of renown, a bit of a sexual athlete. Both Walsh and Clark were part of that ever present seamy side of our sport. We will always have them- out for the buck and to hell with you if you didn't like it. My suggestion to you is that you get the VERY EARLY copies of H&S. It will help you realize how bloody phony the Wanking Wunder, of the Hills that are wooded, is. Some of those old H&S's, circa 1905 to 1910 would show you how wide spread the women's physical culture movement was. They had tennis clubs, cycling clubs, gymnastic clubs, club swinging clubs ad infinitum. AND women's body beautiful contests.
Balik called me over last weekend. I had written to him to suggest that he get Grimek to write a series of articles about building the various body parts, stressing one on calf development and one on posing. In my opinion Grimek would do much betters at this sort of stuff than he would writing about Old Timers. When he does this latter, somehow or the other Grimek always creeps into the article like King Charles' head - read David Copperfield by Dickens and how Mr. Dick tried to write but always got King Charles' head into what he wrote. Thus the stuff was more about Grimek than about this or that old timer.
Bollocks calls and says that was a TERRIFIC IDEA, BUT OF COURSE WE HAD ALREADY THOUGHT OF IT to which I said bullshit under my breath. He also tells me he had been to Woodland Hills and had seen the Wanking Wunder who, so says Balik, was very nice and very friendly. Balik seemed quite cheery and repeated what he has before- that mag sales via subs and news stands are increasing. So my thought is that if he was in any way in trouble, he'd cut his losses with no further ado. All Balik has to do is to mention my name to the Wanking Wunder and say, slyly, 'I'll bet SMITH knows all the secrets and where the bodies are buried' and he'd have no more trouble with the Brothers. The worst thing one can do with them is to show you are afraid or intimidated.
I'd like to see someone TRY and take advantage of me. Remember I have been through the Wanker's mill and I know advantage taking when I see it. It is just being selfish if I have something I don't want, yet rather than give it away, sell it. For chrissakes what can they be worth [Power Digest magazines]. There's really nothing worthwhile in them.
Getting back to Partington. He was always writing about the danger of hand jobs, but stopped short of telling you it would make you blind. He always said a lot without saying anything.
If it isn't generally known that I trained and coached Hepburn to a world title, then either people have bad memories or don't care to remember. But if that Strossen bloke is gonna write an article about Hepburn, then he had better mention the part I played or blood will be on the moon.
continued next week...
Posted by TheEditor @ 08:09 PM CST
1/23/2009: Letter from Charles A. Smith to Joe Roark, May 4, 1988, part 2.
Thursday, January 22, 2009
Letter from Charles A. Smith to Joe Roark, May 4, 1988, part 2.
True, the 'wages' paid by the Hoffie crowd were pitiful. Bob Hasse, who was their ed for some time, begged and pleaded with Hoffie to give him a raise, which was refused. He finally had to leave because he just couldn't keep his family on what he was paid. Joe Lauriano, so I am told, got 35 bucks a week as a packer and loader, ditto Stanko and a hell of a lot more. That was why there was so much till tapping going on. They fired two they caught. One of them was downright foolish since he purchased a flashy Cadillac and thus gave the game away to his bosses who knew he couldn't afford such a car. There were others who were caught, but warned to cease and desist and because a couple of them were well known.
Apart from Terpak and Dietz, Grimek was, perhaps the best paid on the staff and rightly so. Where would they have been without him. No where. He WAS YORK.
I think the only one who got a good deal was the Reverend who had a contract with Hoffie, or so I am told. Nothing they paid Grimek would have been too much. He was worth every penny and Hoffie knew it. Hoffie was a tight wad like the Wanking Wunder of the Hills.
Homo hustling is not recent phenomenon. It has ALWAYS been part of the weight training scene. It increased because the number of weight trainers increased. One VERY VERY FAMOUS MR. AMERICA had a price of 75 bucks a night and on his wedding night turned to his bride of a few hours and said, 'Be seeing ya honey. Got to make the rent money.' And they idolized this slimy bastard as one of the 'Greats' today. Naturally the young lady didn't stay married to him long.
From what little I know, at least three of these photogs have done jail time for selling porno shots. Two were straight and one was gay. The 'industry' is such it can be called, was dominated by gays.
There were many straight photogs in it for the money and there WAS a lot of money to be made. Yes, of course, the photogs took 'legitimate' pictures, especially when Joe or Hoffie wanted a certain well known bodybuilder or lifter shot. But mainly those who shot physiques shot for the gay trade. If ever you come to the Collection again, you should look through some of their catalogues- ALL illustrating young- very young- men with appealing bodies and such, with descriptions that the normal or straight shot collector wasn't interested in. In other words these catalogues not only sold to the gay trade, but took pains to make it known what 'model' was 'available'.
Thus all photogs, straight or Gay, catering to the legit or the gay purchaser did legitimate work for magazines. Lon, for example, took shots of Horvath and I to illustrate a wrestling course that Joe insisting on publishing. I gradually eased out of the mag since it really had no place and there were so many good books on wrestling instruction- including Ed Lewis's book and Liedermann's book- the latter one of the best I have seen.
Lots of those selling photos took entire nudes, and this is what got some of them into trouble since they showed blokes in a state of tumescence. This of course the authorities objected to- in those times. Just as in those times you were not allowed to show a woman's pubic hair but had to air brush it out, which was ridiculous, as if denying the hair existed in those there parts, or else by the ban, tacitly admitting that it was erotic or arousing- which of course it was.
Yes, I believe that shots were sold in which fig leaves and other covering were used that could be erased. Fig leaves quickly went out of style since 'trunks' were easier and faster to paint on. QED.
Yes, I knew Seymour of Sy as he eventually called himself. I first met him at the Bronx Union YMCA, where, by the way I started the first lifting class and enlarged it so much that we took two handball courts away from players who had balls. Great uproar too. Seymour, with his buddy, Herbie Schiff, Herbie Clark and John Ogle were all taught by me at the club and all turned out very well. In fact Schiff landed upo as a pretty darn good lifter and was c&j-ing in the locale of 380 pounds. And in those days that was akin to making 500 at the present. Seymour competed in many BB ocntests and, so far as I recall- it was forty years ago- did well. I eventually got him into pro wrestling wher he 'exhibited' as Sy Koenig. I shoved him in contact with Jim Barnett, who at the time was working for Fred Koehler, the Chicago promoter. Seymour eventually left pro wrestling and went out to the Coast where, I am told -- I AM TOLD- he made lot of money on the stock exchange.
Now YOU tell me why you are interested in Seymour.
DuBois I know little bout apart from the fact that he was a York Pet and all set to win the 1953 Mr. A until I, pointedly might I add, pointed out to the head judge that he had totaled up the scores in Dickie boy's favor and to Bill Pearl's loss- 'an unfortunate error' the head judge said and set it right at once. I understand DuBois subsequently became a preacher. Dr. Samuel Johnson, in his dictionary of the English language, gave his definition of 'Patriotism' as 'The last refuge of a scoundrel.' What with the present spate of sexual revelations among God's anointed, I think Johnson might have easily applied his patriotism to a preacher. Just being my cynical self once more.
Waste not your time sorrowing over those who fail to return answers to your letters and reflect that if you were three times as well known you'd get more mail than you desire. If people think they can use you, or if you can be useful to them, they'll write fast enough. Witness the Smoked Salmon Bloke. Whenever I see a letter from him, I know, before I open it, he's asking for something.
Ta Ta and write soon,
CHASPosted by TheEditor @ 10:39 PM CST
1/16/2009: Letter from Charles A. Smith to Joe Roark, May 4, 1988
Thursday, January 15, 2009
Letter from Charles A. Smith to Joe Roark, May 4, 1988
Thanks for yours of April 30th, reaching me on the 2nd. THX also for the return of the Hoffie opinion.
I have also heard that MD [Muscular Development] will soon be no more. From what I have been told the two MALE HEIRS are arguing over the division of the spoils. One wants to keep the mag, recognising (sic) that the barbell business is no bloody good without a catalogue masquerading as a muscle mag. The other [heir] alleged to be the 'book keeper' wants to cut and run- take the spoils of war and say Ta Ta. There is a very nice apothegm- 'when rogues fall out honest men get their rights' Nu? Personally I think it would be a mistake to drop the mag. We need all the opposition to those mags which make it necessary to wear high hip waders while perusing them to avoid besmirching one's body with all the bovine bowel movement billowing around in the pages. Not that MD hasn't has its share of the 'end product' in some of its issues in the past. But all things pass, an inexorable law of nature. Nothing stays the same. Like empires, mags have their birth, rise, decline and fall. It is so with MD and it will, eventually be the same with the slicks of the Wunder from the Hills Woodland.
As for Balik telling you he is barely breaking even, or whatever. Ask yourself,would he be bringing the mag out on a MONTHLY BASIS if he was going into the hole. He told me his subs AND newsstand sales were improving steadily. He also would not employ a PERMANENT STAFF, as he has, if he was doing poorly. The quality of his ads is also good AND STEADY. Nuff said. I have always wondered who Nuff was and what it was he said.
Irving Clark. What a story there. Let me tell you some. Clark was well tied with George Walsh, the Wanking Wonder of his day, apart from the fact that he ran no mag, but several courses AND a gym. He ran the Harold Laurence Course, the Ron Walker Course, plus his own course, plus several others. When 'Pupils' failed to cough up the monthly installments, he had Clark, an attorney, send them threatening letters. Clark of course was also in on the courses PLUS getting a percentage of what he managed to bully out of the 'pupils'., tardy in their payments. BOTH MEN committed suicide. Walsh by walking off the platform of Clapham Junction, laying his head on the line and waiting for a train to oblige; Clark by walking into some German woods and eating his gun.
H&S [Health and Strength] made a brief comeback last year. Some German firm took it over in 1986, had no bloody luck with it, got rid of it to some bloke. He fucked it up- what did it have to offer anyway. And that was that. Alas, in this instance, one cannot say its course burned briefer, not less bright. Can you imagine that this mag, at one time was published WEEKLY. And Weider brags. Tut tut.
I think the mag you refer to, the one you leafed through at the Collection- was the British mag Superman, originally run by some right wing, Cololen Blimp Lt. Colonel, a gay might I add, who also formed the Paladin League as opposition to H&S mag and their Health and Strength league- more than a quarter of a million members H&S had at one time- not much of a mag Superman, and with--at least to me-- a fag bent. Cedric Underhill who was their 'posing expert' was alleged to be 'gay'. Strange how this word has been entirely changed from its original sexual meaning. In the Victorian Era the term GAY was applied to all women prostitutes.
That Aussie mag I had a brief flight with was POWER DIGEST run by a Ron Modra and both he and the mag took a nose dive and he, plus mag, are no more. He was another who didn't pay up for articles. He owes me fifty bucks and he never paid Jan for a power lifting meet she covered and shot. I have them around here somewhere-- not too many issues, around five or six I think. If I can find them I will gladly sell you them for eighty two thousand dollars, plus a new shirt and a set of silk pajamas PLUS POSTAGE. Joking aside, if I can lay my feeble hands on them, you can have them. Nothing in terms of value anyway, not even the blathering I had in them.
At this stage of the Game I doubt if IM will fold. It depends on the writers--hmmm--Bollocks has scribbling for him. I wrote him recently and suggested that, instead of having Grimek write all that blather about Old Timers, where the name of Grimek creeps into the offerings like King Charles head did in Mr. Dick's depositions (See David Copperfield) he get John to write a series of articles on training. I know of two that would stand in loci classici one day- an article on calf development and one on posing. I suggested that with the right editorial direction, Grimek could do a whiz of a series giving his favorite exercises and WHY they were.
Bollocks also asked me to do another article on some of the stuff that appears by the 'soi disant' experts in some of the mags. I said, 'Fine Bollocks, I'll start with your mag in which one of your experts said that cambered bars were uselss except as psychological 'lifts' and another who said that in the 30s and earlier blokes trained three days a week because there were no squat stands around in Steinborn's day. And this from an 'editor' with an MSc after his cognomen.
Re that strange letter you had about an EYE TYE bloke and his wanting to know about Strongwomen. I used to get loads of letters from blokes when I was running Weider's Wrestling mag wanting to see shots of women wrestling especially SWEATY women wrestlers. Strange indeed are some of the sexual mores of some cutomers. I was constantly asked to shots of sweaty crotches and arm pits. Honest. I consigned all such stuff to file thirteen. The The Wanking Wunder got hold of a letter one day and henceforth we had women wrestlers in the mag. He's the boss I told myself.
Posted by TheEditor @ 10:08 PM CST
1/9/2009: Letter from Charles A. Smith to Joe Roark April 27, 1988, Conclusion.
Friday, January 9, 2009
Letter from Charles A. Smith to Joe Roark April 27, 1988, conclusion.
I wouldn't trust ANYONE at York. I know the score, what has been there and WHO has been done. I know too many secrets. I also can't forget the rotten way they treated me and just because I worked for Weider. It was all MONEY. Weider was treading too heavily on Hoffie's turf, taking away what he looked on as HIS exclusive business, so everyone around Weider was a bad guy. All I was interested in was not the Trainer of the Champions or the so distant FATHER OF AMERICAN WEIGHTLIFTING, but earning a living for my wife and children. So I wouldn't have anything to do with York for their petty, spiteful treatment of me, their sneers and remarks about me in S&H and the way Hoffie tried to pick fight after fight with me at meets
When people start making a lot of money, Joe, they become greedy. They no longer are content with a sufficiency, but want it ALL. This is why, though I pray for your success, I also pray it will be a MODEST ONE, a success that will bring you a reputation for probity, but NOT PILES OF DOUGH. That would, MIGHT should be the word, effect changes in you- as it might effect them in me. I ain't hung around this world for 76 years with shut eyes.
Now, getting on to your article in July MD. Naturally I won't say a thing to anyone and will relay any remarks I hear tell of it.
It would seem to me that you are using a combination of the REST PAUSE and the NEGATIVE TRAINING PRINCIPLE. These, of course, are, as you know, not new but were in use in the late 20s and early thirties. I've used them. Ron Walker used them and countless others.
It would seem to me that concentration on the EXERCISE is taken away by the concentration on the sweep hand of the clock. Might it not be better to count ONE THOUSAND- exactly one second or just guess at the time.
Again, what is 'GOOD STYLE'? To my way of thinking good style is ANY style that achieves good results. No one lifts any more by the Bill Pullum or BAWLA rules for the curl or whatever lift. In fact I doubt if there are more than a score of men who are aware of Bill Pullum or BAWLA Rules for the 42 lifts one could make records on in the early part of this century, up to the late thirties.
I do appreciate your sending me beer. It was a nice gesture. But what I need now, more than ANYTHING IS COMPANIONSHIP. I haven't heard a word, no visit, no phone call from my family since my birthday, March 27th. Out of sight, out of mind I guess.
Thanks for the [George] Weaver address. I shall write to the old bloke and look forward to a lively correspondence. Some of his letters to Willoughby were hilarious. Yes, he was what was known as a 'Sexologist'. So far as I know, he never married. But he did have a vasectomy and had the doctor give him a certificate to that effect which he hung up over his bed. He is a true eccentric and in the English mould, they have produced so many outstanding ones.
Glossbrenner. Here we go again. Our understanding was the same I had with Bollocks. I send the article. He reads it. He likes it, I am paid at ONCE. He agrees. So I write the bloody article. He writes back, says how great it is--of course it is, I wrote it didn't I--and I'll be paid at once. I am still waiting for the check. Plus, ca change, plus ce meme chose (sic).
Weaver keeps moving around hither and yon. Why I don't know. How he lives I am likewise in the dark. I believe he has some sort of a government pension or is qualified for certain low cost housing for the elderly.
There have been some mighty deeds of derring do in the world of weights. Some young Bulgarian Bloke, scaling a mere 123 pounds, cleaned and jerked 376.986 pounds. This is 3.059 times his own bodyweight. Name Neno Terziiski.
Then up toddles another Bulgarian bloke, in the 198 pound class, Rumen Teodosiev. He cleans 523 into the shoulders, has it well and truly racked in, then for some bloody reason leans forward and loses the weight. This is 4 kilos over the world record.
Up pops another Bulgarian, aged 19. lifting in the 110 kilo class. He cleans and jerks 550- belay that- 551. New senior world record. They must be eating an awful lot of yogurt these days. The bloke who made the 551 was Stfan Botev. When all these lifts were done I don't know. I figure some time last year.
What amazes me is that 376 by the man weighing 123. I can remember the excitement we all felt when El Said Nossier, the Egyptian heavyweight made a new world clean and jerk record of 363-3/4. We thought that the MOST.
I think you will enjoy the H&S mags. But keep your eyes peeled. You'll notice the slow steady decline from the 1940s to when Bill Pullum had it. Sad. All the old spirit and idealism vanish. Gradually the pages fill with boobybuilders. It stops being a physical culture magazine and becomes a very poor model of what Hoffie or the Wanking Wunder of the Hills Woodland had.
I have heard, via the grapevine, and from a source close to the man concerned, that the Coach of the Stars since 1909 was actually PAYING for steroids for some of the top men in his stable. It is said that a certain editor of this man has the BILLS for the steroids to prove it. The gains, chemical, made by the overveined and muscled giants were attributed to the one and infallible 'SYSTEM' the Coach of the Stars since 1909 peddled. More to come. Will keep you informed.
I am worried about my memory. It seems to be going. I suppose the next disaster is my girl friend will start complaining.
Had a letter from an attorney friend, who is also an aficionado of lifting and a collector. He told me that but for a very very few, most of the blokes working at York were VERY poorly paid, Joe L. for instance getting only 35 bucks a week. Joe was eventually fired for tapping the till, as was another York employee, who didn't have the sense to keep his ill gotten gains under wraps- nut had to drive around in a big Cadillac. His pay was way down in the boondocks so inquiries were discretely made , the source of the funds discovered and the bloke fired. I know for a fact that Bob Hasse, begged and pleaded with Hoffie for a raise after several years, since he couldn't keep his family on what Hoffie was paying him. Hoffie wouldn't give him one and Hasse quit to get a better job.
And so it goes. As Lord Acton said, 'Power corrupts, etc. etc'.
Best to you and yours,
ChasPosted by TheEditor @ 05:26 AM CST
January 2, 2009 - A Letter from Charles A. Smith to Joe ated April 27, 1988. Part 1
Friday, January 2, 2009
Letter from Charles A. Smith to Joe Roark April 27, 1988
[I have edited out some of the very repetitious parts about Bollocks etc etc., but have included news]
Last Friday night, the 22nd, at 7PM, comes a call from Bollocks, all apologetic; butter wouldn't melt in his mouth already yet- tells me how much he liked the article, that it will be published in the August issue, that the check will be on its way TONIGHT. Has the check arrived? In a pigs arse it has. No bloody signs of it. I also hauled him over the coals for that silly article about Sandow and Saxon by Vic Boff and the cap under a shot of Sandow saying how extraordinary his development was for those times. I askedh im if he had ever heard of Fred Rollon. He hasn't. I ask him also about his knowledge of Maxick. He hasn't any. I also ask him about several other blokes who would make Sandow look like the bloke who had sand kicked in his face bu the beach bully. He has heard of a couple of these. I point out the article was the same old hashed over stuff that has been repeated in all the mags ad nauseum. He tells some shit arsed tale to the effect that he 'inherited' it from Honest, Upright, Christian Man from Nebraska.
Might I add that mail takes two days to reach me from L.A. Here it is Wednesdy and still no sign of the check. This is the sort of treatment I got from the Wanking Wunder.
Now to your cudgel taking up on behalf of Ell. You say that while I trained Hepburn I couldn't lift anywhere near what he did. True. But this has been said much better- and centuries ago during the Elizabethan period- the so called virgin Queen that is- by one Sir Thomas Ascham- pronounced ASH-am. He wrote a book called TOXPHILUS or The Archery Lover. This taught the would be archer the tricks of the trade. When someone pointed out that good old Sir Thomas had never, himself strung a bow or shot an arrow, his reply was. 'Well, a whetstone can't carve a joint of beef, but it sure can sharpen a knife so THAT does the job.
My remarks about Ell and my desire to see how big HIS arms were, was born not only out of frustration at all the malarkey going on today, but from past experience. We had a certain gent in the thirties named Irving Clark. I am sure you'll come across him in some of those old H&S mags you are purchasing. Irv wrote many articles on how to build a big this or that, including many articles on how to build giant biceps. His arms measured a FULL ELEVEN (11) INCHES and we all used to kid him about it, suggesting in very broad Anglo Saxon words, that he take his own medicine. Clark was an attorney with a drinking problem, who eventually walked into the woods while stationed in Germany and blew his brains out.
Are there people with morals? I guess a few and I like to kid myself I am one of them. But what I'd be like, or what changes would appear in my if I was making as much money as Weider is, or as Bollocks says he is, I don't know. Perhaps I'd be as cheating as they are, as ready to shaft people as they seem to be. I don't know. As Lord Acton so wisely said. 'Power corrupts and ABSOLUTE POWER CORRUPTS ABSOLUTELY'.
Posted by TheEditor @ 09:35 AM CST
