Iron History

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10/31/2002 Entry: "Iron History Nov 1-14, 2002"

OBVIOUS NEWS: Well, if you are reading this, you realize there has been a major shift in access to many aspects of, including this aspect. Thank you for deciding to stay with us as a donor. Please understand that those of us who provide words for cyberpump are not being paid with the money you donate- we are donating time and study. Your money is going for site maintenance. For fully ten months ironhistory was provided as a free service, but this can no longer be, because, quite frankly, I am unwilling to pay for maintenance so that I can also work for free to provide a free service. I am selfishly stubborn that way.

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NEWS: Dexter Jackson became the 59th man to win an IFBB pro event when he placed at the top of a 22 man line-up in the British Grand Prix on Oct 26, 2002. He now becomes a part of the group, co-incidentally of 22 men who have also won only a single IFBB pro event. These data based on the 1965 Mr. Olympia as being the first IFBB pro event.

RED PENCIL TEACHER: Vicki Baker at Flex magazine has, by osmosis, taught me preliminary editing of articles. Anytime I can send in a column and not have Vicki call me to correct and question a point, I celebrate.

For example, had Vicki been working at MuscleMag when the Jan 2003 issue was being assembled, she would have noticed the text on page 147 where Eddie Robinson was being quoted:

"At my first Olympia I was surrounded by true champions. You remember the names: Lee Labrada, Berry DeMey, Bob Paris."

Vicki would ask that writer, 'is that correct?' Then he would look it up and have to acknowledge that it was not correct. But, since Vicki and I do not work at MMI, the matter could be left there. But, for correctness, Bob Paris did not compete in the first [and only] Olympia that Eddie competed in, the 1990. Picky? Yes, that's why I admire Vicki, whom I have dragged into this story without her awareness.[ Labrada placed second, DeMey was disqualified. ]

CAUTION: Chuck Ahrens name is so spelled- it is not Arens. George Eiferman's name contains only one 'f'. So if you encounter other spellings, please remember this.

Some months ago, someone purporting to be a friend of Ahrens contacted me and asked me if I would be interested in writing a piece on Ahrens. Was Apollon strong? One of the problems with email is that one never knows with whom one is dealing on such a blind contact. So after several back-and-forth relays between me and Ahrens' rep, Ahrens decided he did not want to speak to me about matters. The story fizzled. Of course, I have no way of knowing whether Ahrens was even involved in this situation. Pity. My appeals to trim the fat from stories of his strength and report what he could really lift, fell dead.

Here are some claims for Ahrens' strength feats as reported circa 1958-1959. I am not endorsing these, just reporting them:

A 270 lb one arm overhead erect press; 225 lbs triceps curls (French press) with barbell; get ready for this one: held out 135 lbs with one arm in front of him, then CURLED it; cleaned and pressed a pair of 205 lb dumbbells. Seated dumbell curl with slight swing, 180 lbs.

Logic and reason combine to doubt these. If you can one arm press 270, then French presses using both arms of 225 would be a breeze. The 135 front lateral raise with barbell and then curling the weight in that position is either silliness or represents the single most impressive feat in the history of one arm biceps/shoulder strength. I nod toward the silliness.


Sometimes, people contact me for info, and I provide it with the stipulation that it will lead to a contact such as this. Shame on me. Several times. But no more. Hence, any info I have to offer will be submitted in this column or thru the pages of Flex, unless one of two criteria is met: Either I get my info before I supply yours, or we have dealt before and I can trust you. I have been burned more often than a candle wick.

Of course, brief answers will be offered in my Q+A section at But if a subject has been treated in ironhistory, it will not be rewritten for the Q+A section. So please use the Search function first.


Larry Aumann on Manitowoc, Wisconsin, owner of an Inch replica asked his friend Ron Van Os to try to lift it. Ron managed to clear the floor about 5" on three separate tries, but failed with his left hand. No matter that he showed Larry three times how to do it, Larry, no doubt our of total humility, could not 'grasp' the lesson. Sadly, Ron has no interest in pursuing a full one hand deadlift with the Inch.

Nov 1, 1878 Dudley Allen Sargent opened his gym in New York

Nov 1, 1921 Ed Jubinville born; would have become age 81 this year

Nov 1, 1926 Joe Miller bought his first set of weights. Real name was John Henry Miller. Born Jul 8, 1909 and died circa 1983. Was profiled in S&H Dec 1932 -which was the inaugural issue of that mag- and in the Mar 1933 issue.

Nov 1, 1962 Roger Eells' final service as minister at Christ Episcopal Church in Ironton, Ohio. Roger was a friend of Joe Hise, and I have been in touch with Eell's daughter- which brings me to this appeal: If you have any contact info on anyone who formerly was involved at a substantial, public, level in the iron game, please share that info with me if you wish to see that person updated here. This is my payment for writing this column- contacts with the former participants, whether 23rd place in the 1943 Mr. America or the winner that year. Okay, trick statement- winner was Jules Bacon whom I have contacted, and 23rd place did not exist- only 22 contestants.

Nov 1, 1975 Gene Massey died at 12:05 pm; born May 26, 1949. Muscular Development in Sep 1967 presented him at age 17 in Young Strength Stars, and Falcon wrote about him in the Dec issue that year. He won the 1970 Mr. Florida. MuscleMag included the last photo taken of him, in their 2:1 issue p 96 along with a tribute to him.

Nov 2, 1889 Louis Cyr, using a piece of cord and one of his fingers, lifted two dumbbells totaling 440 lbs. This was a form of deadlift from a high starting position.

Nov 2, 1959 Ted Lambrinides born in Cincy. He and P.J. Streit have a personal training facility in Cincy these days.

Nov 2, 1973 This was the date that a copy of Eugen Sandow's death certificate was supplied to Leo Gaudreau. There was no post mortem so the cause of death is not known, but removing a car from a ditch single handedly was probably not the cause.

Nov 2, 1991 Dorian Yates and Debbie Chinn marry. I understand they are now divorced.

Nov 3, 1890 Steve Reeves' grandparents, Steven Boyce and Edith Henderson, marry.

Nov 3, 1903 Charles Rigoulot born in Le Vesinet, France; died Aug 22, 1962. He cleaned and jerked Apollon's railcar wheels, which, of course had a 1.93" diameter bar, or axle, which was nearly 2", and not the nearly 3" diameter that Gord Venables insisted on in MIGHTY MEN of OLD, and in S&H Jan 1938. MIGHTY MEN of OLD is not a publication I would recommend, except for the photos.

By 1939 Rigoulot was a machine gunner on the Maginot line, but the S&H reference in Jan 1941 that he had been 'killed in action' was incorrect

He had become a pro on Oct 6, 1925 when he met Ernest Cadine in a lifting match. Charles' best clean and jerk as an amateur was 355 lbs on Jun 28, 1925. As a pro, he upped that poundage in at least seven steps, culminating on Feb 1, 1929 when he succeeded with 401.25 lbs. Robert Cayeux reported in S&H May 1952 that Rigoulot had managed an unofficial C&J with 407.75 lbs in 1930, but when Moyset writes of the same incident (in S&H Jan 1963) he mentions an accident in connection with the lift.

LIFTING NEWS magazine Nov 1962 mentions that Rigoulot died in St. Joseph's Hospital

Nov 3, 1905 Arthur Saxon two hands anyhow of 445.33 lbs

Nov 3, 1916 Bill Hillgardner born. Last I heard, about a year ago, Bill had advanced Alzheimer's disease, and was in a care facility in south Florida. Bill was born in the Hell's Kitchen Area of NYC. He had trained young people in the way of weights in 1940 in Bombay, India and was trying to help the circulation of Health & Strength magazine. He and his wife Doris had been in India since Jun 1, 1939. David Chapman profiled Bill in Ironman Jun 1995. He won the medium class Dec 1, 1938 at a contest in Schenectady, NY.

Nov 3, 1925 George Eiferman born. He would have been age 77 today. Recently Larry Aumann loaned me 100 issues of the old Muscle Builder magazine. These are mags I once had as a teenage boy, and though I then knew the contents of each page by heart, I did not file the contents, gave the mags away, and never regained copies. In these mags, Eiferman was a major figure, writing articles and being written about. There was no other bodybuilder whose face showcased a smile as naturally and effortlessly as did George's face. I had the honor of meeting him and chatting for a brief time.

Nov 3, 1942 George Eiferman joined the Navy on his 17th birthday.

Nov 3, 1946 Charles Albert Hise died; born in 1874 (was father of Joseph Curtis Hise)

Nov 3, 1984 Lee Haney won the 20th edition of the IFBB Mr. Olympia (NYC). It was the first of his eight consecutive victories at the Olympia. The 20th Olympia was the 60th IFBB pro show, and Haney reigned thru Olympia #27 which was the 123rd IFBB pro event for men.

Haney until recently wrote a column in Muscular Development magazine, but has now switched to Flex.

Nov 4, 1911 Swoboda continentaled and jerked 409.18 lbs

Nov 4, 1932 Goerner curled 242.5 lbs. With his long arms, this is a monumental feat.

Nov 4, 1948 H&S magazine announces the death of Ron Walker on Oct 25, 1948.

Nov 4, 1969 Earle Liederman dies; born Dec 12, 1886. Earle was a skilled writer, but not a skilled researcher, and he admitted hyperbole to the pages upon which he wrote.

I believe he was born Dec 12, 1886 but am not certain of the year; he died Nov 4, 1969. He wrote for Your Physique, Muscle Power (from the inaugural Oct 1945 issue), Mr. America, Muscle Builder, Muscle Training Illustrated, Vim, Mr. Universe, Ironman, Muscular Development. Strength & Health, and in Iron Master a couple of reprints from Your Physique and Muscle Power- that latter piece offering the correct weight of Paul Anderson's safe (2,300 lbs)

Earle's style was intriguing and captured your attention, though sometimes that hyperbole was misleading. Anyway, today we have in our field very few writers who could match his skills as a writer, arranging words on a paper so that your eyes could not leave that paper. As an example of hyperbole. Consider his piece in Apr 1968 "I predict 25" arms will be common"- in Muscular Development mag.

I have read that he was married to Miss Alaska, and I have read that he was not. He was planning on being a partner to Sandow back in 1924-1925 but Eugen's death thwarted that endeavor.

But The Earle of Hollywood had a flow to his style, and when he wrote the gossip sections for Weider, there was a joy to the page, and the reader felt as though he in fact WAS in the weight pit at Muscle Beach evesdropping.

Nov 5, 1948 The Mr. Arizona contest won by Preston V. Deed

Nov 5, 1954 Bill Pearl and Sylvia Frazer wedding. Have since divorced.

Nov 6, 1916 Nordquest pullover and press 363.5 lbs

Nov 6, 1943 Ken Patera born (or Nov 7?)

Nov 6, 1948 Bob Hoffman birthday show

Nov 6, 1948 Alan Stephan won the IFBB Mr. America (it was for the year 1949). Alan remains the only man to have held both the AAU and IFBB versions of the Mr. America. He won the AAU in 1946.

Nov 6, 1955 Maria Shriver born. Last I heard she married some muscleguy named Arnold.

Nov 6, 1971 First World's Powerlifting Championships. PLUSA recapped this event in Mar 1998 when Herb Glossbrenner began his series of recapping the history of the World's Powerlifting Championships. I have seen criticism of PLUSA magazine- that it needs a new look, a new format, that it is tired, and not lively. But it remains THE magazine of record for powerlifting, a veritable index of thousands of contests. And while some may consider it dry, I consider it a wonderful source. The problems in current powerlifting cannot be remedied thru the pages of PLUSA- Mike Lambert, the owner, can only report, not amend the direction the sport has taken, and that direction is away from real lifting into the padded-bra illusions of supportive gear. If the contest was scheduled for 2pm but somehow all the gear had been stolen, the poundages lifted would be the same as with gear, or higher, or lower? I apologize for asking so difficult a question.

Nov 6, 1972 Roger Eells died

Nov 6, 1997 Franklin Page died; born Sep 7, 1909. Several men named Page have written for the mags thru the years, A.F. Page is the man here described- not Bruce Page, or Douglas Page, or Floyd Page. Franklin began writing in Ironman in Jan 1958, in MD in Oct 197, MTI in Mar 1983, in MMI in Sep 1983. The preponderance of his writing was for Ironman for which he penned his final piece in Jul 1986. Most of his work involved profiles of individual bodybuilders.

Nov 6, 2001 At age 14 years, 301 days, Bjorn, stepson to Arne Persson, completely closed the #2 gripper belonging to Mikael Siversson. Held it shut for several seconds.

Nov 7, 1944 Paul Von Boeckman died; born Jan 20, 1871

Nov 7, 1959 Stephan Joseph Stanko born. Son of Steve Stanko

Nov 7, 1993 Lilli Sophia Balik born; daughter of John Balik.

Nov 8, 1948 The Baillargeon brothers visit Sig Klein, and Paul bent pressed the 209 lb Rolandow dumbell on his first attempt.

Nov 8, 1951 Randy Strossen born. Now publishes the magazine/journal MILO

Nov 8, 1963 Anton Matysek died; born Jan 11, 1893

Nov 8, 1968 Sig Klein closed his gym for the first time in 40 years to attend Bob Hoffman's 70th birthday party

Nov 8, 1975 Arnold won the 11th edition of the IFBB Mr. Olympia and then announced his retirement from competition. Came out of retirement to win the 1980 Olympia.

Nov 9, 1898 Bob Hoffman born; died Jul 18, 1985. We will treat Hoffman at a later time.

Nov 9, 1917 Vince Gironda born. Died Oct 18, 1997 at age 79. His first gym was on the first floor at 11262 Ventura Blvd in Studio City, CA. This opened Apr 1, 1946 and he then started a branch in Aug 1949 in Pasadena which his brother ran. There is misinformation about Gironda, who was known as The Iron Guru. Because we will examine Vince at another time, sufficient for now is this rule of thumb: He never won a physique contest. Period. So any texts you encounter that attribute a victory to him should be suspect.

One author even asserts that Vince first competed in 1949, though Vince had placed 6th at the 1941 Mr. California, and he placed second in best chest at that event. [Jack LaLanne won best chest]

Nov 9, 1919 Bob Delmonteque told me at the Arnold Classic that this is his day of birth. Other texts (one by himself) indicate a birthdate of 1926, 1927. Arrgh! And thanks to Larry loaning me those old issues of Muscle Builder magazine, consider this text from the Apr 1959 issue on page 53 from the gossip section written by the editors:

"And while we're on the subject of Bob Delmonteque, here's a question from Ed Tomlinson of Sioux Falls, South Dakota. Ed asks, 'What is the correct name of Delmonteque, the famous physique photographer? Frequently I hear him called Mike Delmonteque and at other times, Bob.

"Actually, Bob is not a Bob at all�he's a Mike. And neither is he a Delmonteque either�he's a Diaks. Mike Diaks is the real moniker. Delmonteque is just his professional name"

The text then relates that he is from Detroit and is of Polish ancestry.

Nov 9, 1933 Ed Corney born. That famous scene in the movie Pumping Iron when Arnold, watching Corney posing, remarks how great a poser Ed is. Ed & Arnold were part of the Whitney Museum happening in Feb 1976.

Nov 9, 1935 Don Howorth born

Nov 9, 1951 Lou Ferrigno born

[notice how man ironmen were born on Nov 9]

Nov 10, 1946 The Keasbey Eagles Athletic Club Weightlifting team held its first meeting. This is the club which Phil Grippaldi helped make famous.

Nov 10, 1979 Arnold graduated from the U of Wisconsin

Nov 11, 1899 George Bruce born; died in Nov 1973? He was introduced to readers of Ironman magazine in Apr 1953 as George 'Butcherman' Bruce- Developer of Beauty Queens. He wrote for Ironman thru Feb 1971, then 3 years later that mag ran his obituary. He also wrote for Physical Power mag for a couple of years in the early 1960s, and for S&H Nov 1950 thru Nov 1955. For S&H he included more topics and profiles of males than he did for the other mags.

Nov 11, 1918 World War One Ended. In some ways the war caused the demise of the olde time strongman performance.

Nov 11, 1959 Lee Haney born. Still holds, at 8, the most Mr. Olympia victories. Had that tiny waistline and flared lats, the former of which is so missed among the current crop of competitors.

Nov 12, 1891 Selig Whitman received the nickname 'Ajax'

Nov 13, 1933 David Gentle born. Writer from England, and because my collection is missing so many magazines from that country, my info on him is lacking.

He has written for the American mags, of course, and has some series worthy of your attention: Muscular Development in Aug and Oct 1984 presented his two parts of "A Century of Muscles"

His four part series in Health and Strength in 1979 about the "Ever Changing Face of H&S Magazine" is worthy, though I lack the fourth installment.

Happy birthday #69, David!

Nov 13, 1935 Bob Hoffman, Rosetta Hoffman, Frederick Tilney, and George Jowett lunched together in Philadelphia. Tall tales told at that table!

Nov 13, 1948 Bob Peoples deadlifted 719 lbs.

Nov 13, 1949 Armand Tanny won the Pro Mr. America, and Jim Allen won Mr. San Francisco.

Nov 13, 1961 Erika Mes born. She coupled with Berry DeMey to win the 1982 European Mixed Pairs championships. The following year she won the lightweight class at the World championships, but posed for the Belgium (I think) issue of Playboy circa 1987 and was suspended until Oct 1, 1988. Playboy selected her, one suspects, because of her truly beautiful face and a figure that had won the 1980 Miss Bikini at the NABBA Universe. [I have been informed that the issue of Playboy under discussion is the Sep 1987, Dutch/Netherlands version]

Nov 14, 1947 Sig Klein presented his STARS of STRENGTH show in NYC at the Saint Nicolas Arena featuring Steeves Reeves, Pudgy Stockton, Frank Leight, Santo Leone, Ed Theriault, Walter Podolak, John Fritshe, and Jack Kent. Podolak's name was incorrectly spelled as Padolak on the advertising poster.

INCH 101: part 21

Nov 3, 1912 regarding John Grun Marx:

"He gave a strong show of the old type, dumb-bell and bar-bell lifting. He was a huge man, with enormous hands, standing over 6 ft. and weighing over 17 st. He used to challenge anyone to lift his two dumbbells. They had enormous handles, and no one could do much with them. Some said the handles were loose, and that there was some kind of trick. I don't know whether this was so, but I think the weight of them (over 100 lbs. each) and the thick handles were quite enough to safeguard his money without anything else.

Then Inch continues regarding the fact that Marx never tried to lift the Inch bell: "Personally, I don't think he could have lifted it, though I remember Pevier once told me that he [Marx] would have swung it."

Then Inch claims that because Saxon had more hand strength than Marx, and because Saxon failed to lift the Inch, he doubted that Marx would have succeeded. Of course, Inch waited until both these men were dead to make these statements. Perhaps Inch was ignorant of Marx's ability to one hand deadlift, with either hand, a bell outweighing the Inch bell by about 54 lbs, the handle of which was 2.36", so .02" smaller than the 2.38" original Inch. Frankly, anyone who does not think Marx could have increased the handle size by .02" and REDUCED the weight by 54 lbs and still have lifted it, is someone with whom I care not to discuss the situation. That person is free to skip merrily to wherever it is his mind is at peace. And I with clean shaven face and giddy smile will skip in the opposite direction where the facts and figures for forgone physiques foment.

Nov 12, 1921 Inch wrote in H&S Strongmen I have known: Milo, Atlas & Vulcana.

Nov 12, 1953 Inch wrote in H&S Mammouths of the Iron Game.

Nov 13, 1876 Hengler's Circus in Liverpool, opened. There were several Hengler's locations at one time.

Roark Reference #24: Letter to Joe Roark from Charles A. Smith Oct 17, 1985: excerpts:

Don't let it get your bowels in an uproar about the misinformation you got about Mr. A. When info is passed from one to another it is added to or loses and winds up greatly different from the original.

[regarding my former newsletter}: Powerlifting is a growing sport and you shouldn't leave it out. It now has MORE LIFTERS than Olympic Lifting and in my opinion will be included in the Olympics in the not too distant future. Indeed I don't see how they can ignore it for much longer. There has also been talk of EXCLUDING Olympic Lifting from future Games

[regarding a man who wrote to me asserting Barton Horvath was as good as, or better than John Grimek]: As for the remark that Horvath was as good, if not better, than Grimek well-beauty isi n the eye of the beholder- and in this case Barnett must have been blind. I've seen Bart in training gear-and he didn't do too much training as I recall. And so far as I know he NEVER took part in ANY contests. He may have 'appeared', but I think that when I met him for the first time in January of 1950, he had long since put all training beside him. He and I posed once for some wrestling course I was writing for Joe and he looked in good shape, but as for saying he was Grimek's equal, that is laughable. Horvath and Grimek certainly did not meet, and on more than one occasion, the last time being when the law suit between Hoffman and Weider took place and Bart appeared as a witness for HOFFMAN.

I can only Agree with Barnett when he says Grimek WAS YORK. But, sadly Hoffman didn't make full use of him. Can you imagine what WEIDER would have done with Grimek.

By the way, before I forget it, I had a very nice letter from Grimek and wrote him a short reply-only six pages- telling him all I had been into and expressing the wish that we could at long last, become friends.

My files? They are all in my head. I have no other. I should have kept files and am a bloody fool for not so doing. I never even kept copies of all the articles I wrote. Oh how I could revamp some of them and bring them up to date and so make them acceptable for the modern 'crap'- sorry, I mean crop of bodybuilders

Which brings me to two men after [whom[ the California Comet patterned himself-XXX and XXX. XXX I despise. He was a self serving phoney in my opinion, a complete con man who, while he may have inspired millions duped and fooled just as many with his lies and hypocrisy. Any man who would insist that a woman undergo an episiotomy, as he insisted his wife do, WITHOUT anesthesia, is in my book a no good bastard.

But XXX. Shortly I will be sending you an article that appeared in a very old ARENA AND STRENGTH about fifty years ago on the venerable XXX. It was sent to me by one of my vast corps of spies and agents provocateur and is an eye opener.

I had always heard that XXX was a liar and a thief, This article not only proves it but rams it down ones throat. It states cases, instances and examples. It mentions Willoughby and Pullum in it and how XXX shafted both of them, made false advertising claims, used shots of other men's pupils in his ads, even claiming SAXON and HACKENSCHMIDT as his pupils.

I have to have it copies for the Collection and then I'll send it your way. What I have said before is just to get you in the required state of the squitters in anticipation. I also think I shall keep the stuff-say-two or three months before I mail it to you, or even not send it before next Michaelmass or until you send me a life time supply of ice cold door knobs and powdered monkey eyes.

All those medals and contests XXX claimed to have won were but figments of his imagination. He NEVER won them.

Oh well. Just sit and get an attack of the vapors until you get this most interesting and historical piece of material. In fact, it might make a very interesting theme for a Bulletin, except it might upset Vic Boff who adores XXX and who is a thoroughly nice guy [Vic]

Thas was Thas all, warm regards to you and yours,


Replies: Comments(4)

It may well be someone was having fun at my expense regarding Ahrens. I'll probably never know.
Also recently a man claiming to be Eric Pedersen's son contacted me and had information (accurate) about Pedersen's real name and some other facts that caused me to believe he really was Eric's son, or that he had done some research to make me think he was the son.
Real name was Putnam, by the way, Charles Roland Putnam, and according to this man, died in 1990 on Oct 13. This man was planning a website in his dad's honor.
Anyway, if anyone has a lead on Ahrens, which the Ironman Encyclopedia book spells Arens, I most certainly would appreciate hearing from you.

Posted by Joe Roark @ 11/12/2002 08:53 AM CST


Your comment about Ahrens surprised me because I thought he died years ago. I'm sure I read that somewhere. Maybe his "rep" was someone having a bit of fun at your expense. I believe Ahrens did have considerable upper body strength, however. He certainly had big arms and was indeed a mystery man.

Charles Smith mentioned Vic Boff at the end of his letter. I knew him, although not really well. We corresponded some as I was a member of the AOBS that he started, and he sent me some literature about 10 years ago in
regard to a temporary health problem that I had at he time. We also had a phone conversation or two, the last of which was a couple of years ago. He was a genuinely nice man and will certainly be missed.

Posted by
Tom Ryan @ 11/11/2002 11:56 PM CST

That was in fact a typo- correct year of death for ELL was 1969. The goal here is pinpoint accuracy, so thank you for helping.

My goal is to present text filled with checkable details- this may hinder the 'flow' for the reader but it also helps readers check up on what is presented.

Thanks again!

Posted by Joe Roark @ 11/02/2002 03:54 PM CST

Hello, Mr. Roark. I Love your site. I find your appetite for detail somewhat amusing as I could never do it myself. Though I am very glad someone is doing it since I do love to read about it. I especially have been enjoying the letters from Mr. Smith. I wish you didn't have to X out peoples names, though I can often guess who is being talked about anyway. Anyway the real reason I am writing this is to just point out in your last post you gave 2 different dates for Earle Liederman's death. You write 1968, then in the next sentence you state 1969. Probably just a typo but I thought you would like to know. Keep up the good work. Thanks.
- Jarett Hulse

Posted by Jarett Hulse @ 11/02/2002 01:52 PM CST